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 91 
 on: October 04, 2018, 07:58:36 pm 
Started by Oskar - Last post by Johan Edström
Pm

 92 
 on: October 03, 2018, 09:03:44 am 
Started by TELBOY - Last post by TELBOY
Work in progress!

 93 
 on: October 01, 2018, 12:22:02 pm 
Started by matramurena - Last post by roy4matra
Hi Roy,

If you could provide me with an newer version I can turn that into a searchable diagram so we can easily search at an mostly accurate diagram. Smiley I have changed the handbrake to nr 18 and the nr 20 was allready changed. Are the rest of the faults all related to the diagnostics connector?

No.  And I cannot supply you a simple diagram that is correct for all models as I have stated.  There are too many variables.  You would have to provide many different diagrams.

I can applaud you for the idea, although it is one I looked at many years ago and rejected it because of all the variables and the number of different diagrams I would have to make.  I spent many years correcting all the mistakes, collecting the information and developing my system.  I have been selling my accurate diagrams printed in colour and laminated for just £5 to cover my costs, and have advertised these both in the U.K. club magazine and on my own webpages, again for many years.

I have also noted you have introduced at least one more mistake yourself and missed out some of the chassis earths.  Please email me at roy@matraclub.org.uk

Roy

 94 
 on: October 01, 2018, 11:38:19 am 
Started by matramurena - Last post by matramurena
Hi Roy,

If you could provide me with an newer version I can turn that into a searchable diagram so we can easily search at an mostly accurate diagram. Smiley I have changed the handbrake to nr 18 and the nr 20 was allready changed. Are the rest of the faults all related to the diagnostics connector?

 95 
 on: October 01, 2018, 11:33:49 am 
Started by matramurena - Last post by roy4matra
That's really useful, extremely helpful works great. As usual your knowledge and help on these vehicles is much appreciated.

Beware Ian (and any others here) that the diagram provided is a very old one that has many other mistakes and should be avoided as it can be misleading.  This was exactly why I made my accurate ones.

Roy

 96 
 on: October 01, 2018, 11:23:06 am 
Started by matramurena - Last post by MatraIan
That's really useful, extremely helpful works great. As usual your knowledge and help on these vehicles is much appreciated.

 97 
 on: October 01, 2018, 10:57:41 am 
Started by matramurena - Last post by roy4matra
I have been busy looking for the other end of the number 2 wire from the fuse-box for quite some time yesterday. It turned out that there was a typo on the diagram andthat it actually is number 20 that comes from the fuse box and goes to the headlamp actuator.

However, I got tired of looking at the screen searching all the numbers so I made a searchable pdf-file out of the diagram. If you press CTRL-F you can search for any wire-number you want and see all connections in the diagram.

You can download it here:  https://we.tl/t-FpnTlI39vP

It's a bit too big to post here as attachment....

If you still have a wiring diagram that had that number '2' circuit mistake, (which should have been '20' ) then you are using a very old and inaccurate wiring diagram that has either 12 mistakes or 25 mistakes depending on where it came from!  The one with 12 mistakes was one of the first copies I ever saw, and then someone changed it for some reason and ended up adding another 13 mistakes!  You should not really be providing an out of date and especially an inaccurate diagram on the internet which will lead to many more people picking up the wrong information.

This is why as an auto-electrician, I produced my accurate diagrams many, many, years ago and have been providing them to owners all over the world.  To give you just one other example, you will probably find there are two entirely different circuits labelled '17'.  Again a mistake as they have nothing to do with one another.  The first is the hand brake warning light circuit whilst the second is in the engine wiring loom!  I changed the hand brake circuit to '18' as that was an unused number.

The mistake '2' instead of '20' was not a factory mistake, it was by whoever produced that first copy.
The two circuits labelled '17' was a factory mistake.  I have the original factory wiring diagram blue prints.

The other problem with the factory wiring diagrams (there are just two - one for the 1.6 and one for the 2.2) is that they are correct only for the wiring at the very start of the Murena production.

There were various versions during the short life of the car, and therefore these two diagrams cannot possibly be correct for many of the cars actually produced.  Just one example is that there were at least six or seven different engine wiring looms since we had 1.6 models with 12-pin or 10-pin diagnostic sockets or no diagnostic socket at all plus 2.2 models with 12-pin sockets containing 11 pins or later only 6 pins being used or the later cars without any diagnostic socket at all.  And the 11-pin filled version sometimes had number 7 missing or other times number 11 pin missing!  Now you might not consider the diagnostic socket is worth considering, (although I do) but this is just showing you how one diagram for each of the two models (1.6 & 2.2) cannot possibly be correct.

When I produced my accurate diagrams I have allowed for all variations and always request some information from the owner who wants one of my diagrams so that I can make it accurate for that car (standard wiring only) and I then add the VIN to show it was made for that car only; and if anyone copies it to anyone else, I can verify the reason if it is then claimed by the person with the copy that it is not correct.

I can even produce a diagram for someone like you who has fitted a V6 Alfa engine.  I simply omit the engine loom altogether and simply provide the rest of the loom as the car would have had.  The engine loom wiring should have been provided by the people who fitted the engine, or if you fitted it yourself, then you should have drawn up your wiring modifications so that you or anyone else can later work on the car without difficulty.

This should apply to anyone who modifies any wiring on ANY car.  I do so for all my own cars, but I doubt many other private owners do it, which leads to a great mess and many problems when someone else buys these cars.  I know as I have bought many second hand cars in the past and had to sort out the horrible wiring on them.

However, if the modification is by a professional firm then you should insist on a new wiring diagram to go with any modifications they make.  If they cannot provide one, then I would not use them.

One further point.  The Murena hand books had the wiring in them, but in the format of numbered units with connections, and dispensed with the long lines between all the units.  This works fine if you know how to use it and was a system the manufacturers came up with to replace all those complex diagrams with lots of lines where it was too easy to loose your place when trying to follow one line among many and ended up in the wrong place.

However, Matra (or whoever made the hand books) also made mistakes in those electrical and wiring diagram pages.  Again I have corrected the hand books now as you can see if you have downloaded any of my files.  Again just one example - the photo of the fuse box in the car is shown with the unit around the wrong way!

Roy

 98 
 on: September 30, 2018, 09:04:42 pm 
Started by matramurena - Last post by matramurena
I have been busy looking for the other end of the number 2 wire from the fuse-box for quite some time yesterday. It turned out that there was a typo on the diagram andthat it actually is number 20 that comes from the fuse box and goes to the headlamp actuator.

However, I got tired of looking at the screen searching all the numbers so I made a searchable pdf-file out of the diagram. If you press CTRL-F you can search for any wire-number you want and see all connections in the diagram.

You can download it here:  https://we.tl/t-FpnTlI39vP

It's a bit too big to post here as attachment....

 99 
 on: September 30, 2018, 08:50:15 pm 
Started by murramor - Last post by matramurena
Turns out to be 89. Smiley

http://carjoy.nl/about.asp?idproject=1&action=project

But I am not 100% sure the mirrors came at the same time as the Perestroika. Maybe they were already develloped before and used on the Perestroika project as well.

 100 
 on: September 30, 2018, 07:57:29 pm 
Started by murramor - Last post by northmurena
Close to, Martijn, close to.....

The Kierena ( from KIEfer and MuRENA) , later known as Perestroika was designed in the 80´s. I´m not sure what year it was exactly, would need to check some old invoices, but i think it  was 1986, when i saw the prototype. Definately it was before 1990 because i have an old cataloque from january 1989 from the company Kiefer, Blieskastel, Germany. The Kierena / Perestroika is already in there. The kit was listed there for 12000 Deutsche Mark plus mirrors, plus rear-hatch plus...plus...plus

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