Modifying Front Brakes

[murramor]

This is one area where I am happy to sacrifice originality.  My front disks are badly worn and they would be quite heavy to post from  Europe to Australia.  Are there any disks and perhaps even the calipers from a current or recent model which would fit without much modification?

[roy4matra]

This is one area where I am happy to sacrifice originality.  My front disks are badly worn and they would be quite heavy to post from  Europe to Australia.  Are there any disks and perhaps even the calipers from a current or recent model which would fit without much modification?

I am not aware of any.  One problem is that the Murena discs are fitted on the back of the hub, not the outside like most cars.  (so you have to pull the hub apart to change the disc!)  Most cars you simply remove the wheel and brake caliper and you can change the disc.

So either you are going to have to use the original, or find another that fits on the inside, or change the hubs too, or make your own!  However, please bear this in mind - you should only need to change the discs once in about 15 - 20 years if the brakes are maintained correctly, so that is not really as big a deal as some people make out.

If anyone has modified the front (or rear) brakes easily, AND they work as well as, or better than the original set up, we would all be pleased to hear from you.

Roy

[lewisman]

Roy
How do you stop brake discs from corroding when the car is not being used?  My wife's Alfa needs new discs front and back every two years simply because she only does around 3K miles per year and the corrosion causes the surface to be pitted.  Granted our climate does not help but I can't see me getting 10-15 years out of a set of disks.

Even my main drive - a 2004 Alfa - is on its second set of front discs and the rears look pretty dodgy.  I do nearly 20K miles per year so it is on the road almost every day.  When I replaced the front discs at approx 50K miles the pads were still quite serviceable.  It was just the disks that were both rusty and worn.

The murena is (fortunately) in a garage so it should be better!

I would still be really interested in a set of hubs that allowed the discs to be replaced without splitting the bearings.  Especially if it allowed a pair of "standard" disks to be fitted at the rear.

Has anyone done this?

David

[roy4matra]

Roy
How do you stop brake discs from corroding when the car is not being used?

If the car is not being used, remove the pads and calipers and cover the discs in grease, and wrap with oil proof paper.

If the car is only being used intermittently then you need to stop using non-asbestos pads and switch to kevlar. (or asbestos pads if you can still get them!  And regarding the health hazard, non-asbestos pads are just as bad as asbestos ones in my opinion but in a different way, so don't bother writing to me to say they should no longer be used. ;-))

One big problem with non-asbestos pads and clutches is that they contain metal particles, which a) wear the metal surfaces (discs/flywheels) unevenly causing grooving which corrode faster, and b) they also corrode themselves and therefore become welded to the disc if left stationary in contact for long lengths of time, making the situation even worse.  When you start using again, you get a tearing action to separate the surfaces.

As for Italian cars and discs, well their metal is poor to start with, so you are on to a loser there anyway! :-)

With our wet climate you need to either use the car regularly, or keep it in a dry garage, or take it off the road and cover as stated initially.

Roy

[lewisman]

As for Italian cars and discs, well their metal is poor to start with, so you are on to a loser there anyway! :-)

I am not sure where the replacement ones were made but Italian/French much the same as far as metal quality is concerned.  Similar standard of wiring as well unfortunately.

I agree with you about the non-asbestos pads.  They are a big factor and I suspect most people were more careful with the dust when asbestos was involved!

I suppose if my murena was going to be garaged up for six months I could consider wrapping the discs up.  It is still in the middle of a re-build so there will be new discs going on the front and I will hopefully get away with skimmimg the rears whch are just a bit pitted but not grooved at all.

I would still prefer having the option of easily removable discs so I will have a good look at the hubs when I strip them down.  It would be handy if someone else had done it before though......

[murramor]

Thanks Roy.  I must say that the fact that nobody seems to have modified the brakes radically seems to point to the fact that most owners are happy with the brakes or, alternatively, that the parts supply is very good.  I also belong to the Lotus Europa forum and there brake upgrades are always a hot topic.

I haven't disassembled the brakes as yet so I don't know what the stub axles are like so I don't know whether alternatives such as old VW brakes which had the hub and disk as a single casting could be made to fit.

Anyway I have given up and ordered a set of standard disks from Will.

[Waldo]

I'm aware of one front brake conversion (njesper from this forum), made with custon made 4 or 6 pot calipers (can't remember the manufacture) and some kind of standard performance discs. Looks and bites great, but cheap... no way 

Postage to Australia shouldn't be that bad... My company got some discount and I remember 48 hour service to Melbourne worked out around 80€ (approx. same size as a pair of discs).
Must be less if you don't need them asap 

Thanks Roy.  I must say that the fact that nobody seems to have modified the brakes radically seems to point to the fact that most owners are happy with the brakes or, alternatively, that the parts supply is very good.  I also belong to the Lotus Europa forum and there brake upgrades are always a hot topic.

I haven't disassembled the brakes as yet so I don't know what the stub axles are like so I don't know whether alternatives such as old VW brakes which had the hub and disk as a single casting could be made to fit.

Anyway I have given up and ordered a set of standard disks from Will.

[Lennart Sorth]

I'm aware of one front brake conversion

Many years ago (10+) I emailed with somebody in Australia, who worked as an aircraft engineer, and as such had the skills to do many things, - i.e. converting his Matra (can't remember if it was Bagheera or Murena, probably Bag) to RHD, and as far as I remember he had somehow put the brakes from a Ford Sierra 4x4 on the car.

However, I think you need to be an aircraft engineer to accomplish this with good results.

/Lennart

[Oskar]

aint it possible to put a disc outside the hub with a high ET on the disc

the original disc may have to be on to but it can me machined down so it just supports the wheelbearing?

[Anders Dinsen]

Bernhard in germany has done some thinking about this, but AFAIK he hasn't yet got to the point where he has actually made any modifications. But he has published his thoughts on his homepage on the following address:

http://www.technikhomepage.de/index.html

He has even made a 3D drawing of his design!



It's not easy to link into, so you have to navigate yourself:
Click 'KFZ-Technik' -> Murena 'Bremsen' -> 'Umrüsting'

- and arm yourself with your German dictionary

[lewisman]

Looks too complicated for me.

I would only do it if I could use an off-the-shelf disc.

[Anders Dinsen]

Looks too complicated for me.

I would only do it if I could use an off-the-shelf disc.

Ditto! It's just too complicated and not worth the effort: The time a cost involved in making a good conversion will never make up for the time and cost saved by using a standard on-hub fitted disc.

But I'm sure Bernhard enjoys both the engineering and the building time, and he does not seem to be scared off by complexity issues. Judging from his web site, he is a very through guy. If you can read the German, there's actually a lot to be learnt from him!

- Anders

[Spyros]

(can't remember if it was Bagheera or Murena, probably Bag) to RHD,
/Lennart

Bagheera front brakes are different. No floating calipers but fixed ones with a piston on each side. 
On one of mines, I fitted calipers coming from another Talbot, giving more pads surface. Works fine.

[krede]

Don't mess with the brakes....
Overhaul them so they are as Matra intended,fit green stuff pads, and you will have more stopping power then you'll ever need for road use.

Modifying the hubs to have "outboard" discs is (IMHO) a complete waste of time.

So.. you have to open the bearing to change the discs.... but... seriously how often are you planning to do this operation? anyway ?

[lewisman]

Hopefully, with non-asbestos pad, they will not need replacing too often but it is still a worry if your murena is not used regularly and it is crazy to have to split the bearings to replace discs as chances are you will damage the wheel bearing seals. 

The cost of 2.2 rear discs is also a factor if as part of the conversion a standard, off the shelf disc could be used.  So in my opinion it would not be a waste of time.

I would not be looking to change the braking performance just make it easier to keep my murena on the road.