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Author Topic: Grand Espace 2.2DCI 2000 Replace front wheel bearings  (Read 12893 times)
Sommerby
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« on: May 02, 2009, 08:49:08 pm »

Hi there.
Do anybody in this forum have experience in changing the front wheel bearings of a Espace JE?  What is needed of special tools?

Best Regards
Bo
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 04:38:51 pm by Sommerby » Logged

Best Regards
Bo
Sommerby
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Spaceship Pilot


« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 10:55:16 pm »

A hydralic press was needed. Payed 140 euros for 2 frontwheel bearings and it took 4 manhours to replace them.
During the last 100.000 km I have replaced 5 wheel bearings (2 front and 3 back).
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Best Regards
Bo
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 05:50:43 am »

Well done, Bo and thanks for sharing it. I don't understand why you have to change bearings so often. Our JE has done 190 kkm, and - as far as I know - never had a wheel bearing changed, rear or front!
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2009, 10:58:12 am »

...same on our 24v - i have all the service paperworks on it and not one single bearing on 137k km

When you buy bearings, is it genuine parts or something else ?
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
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Sommerby
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Spaceship Pilot


« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2009, 11:43:59 am »

The 3 backwheel bearings were origianl parts while the frontwheel bearings are produced of FABI bilstein. 

I got this strange issue that the inside back brake pads are wearing down in about a year while the back outside pads are only slightly used.

When dismanling the brakes, The brake pads are "floating" perfectly so I wonder how this can happend?  I assume that the heat this issue generates, may dry out the bearing lubrication and cause the bearings to fail.

I have ordered 4 new ate discs, brake pads and a new handbrake cable, which I'm going to replace before our holiday trip to Italy in June. I will have to intensively investige if the back brake pads are moving freely, but with perfectly floating calibers I really wonder how I can have uneven wear og the pads?

Any good ideas?
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2009, 04:15:23 pm »

I can't promise a good idea, but here's one:

Maybe there's a connection between the uneven wear of the pads and the failure of the bearings. You almost suggest it yourself: the problem could be as simple as a sticking caliper. Ideally, a sticking caliper should cause even wear on the pads, but things aren't quite normal when a caliper is sticking and the free movement of the caliper is mostly designed to work only over short braking periods (very small movements, 1/10th of a milimetre), or when the brakes are not activated.

The heat generated by the brakes could be drying out the grease in the bearing - causing eventual failure.

/Anders
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
colin4255
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2009, 12:22:48 am »

Or, if you are just talking about un-even wear on the rear brake pads, the chancs are your handbrake cable is binding and leaving the rear pads slightly in contact with the disc.  Too much and you'd soon smell them, but just a little and maybe not, espcailly if only on one side of the car.

I had an issue with my Grand Espace handbrake cables recently. All the time I'd owned it (2 years now) the handbrake  lever came up a long way. I asked th dealer to adjust the free play in the cable during a service, and then we found it was sticking on the LHS.  Now they wanted £180 GBP to change two cables!  and said my rear calipers needed changing too.  I disconnected the h/B cables on both sides and found the calipers were fine. I got a local garage to source a set of handbrake cables for £24 (not the £180 I was quoted by Renault) and they charged me £35 to fit them. No more issues with binding rear pads.  But they are very prone to getting water in them and going rusty and sticking - this local garage has changd quite a few and they always oil them with a motorcycle cable oiler before they fit them now and so far have never had one vehicle back.  The problem sems to be there is very litle movement from handbrake  fully off to fully on with the rear caliper, so it would be quite easy for one side to bind even just a little (ie not enouh to burn the pads out, but enough to cause premature wear - and then heat and then wheel bearing damage)

Go to say though in 130000 miles of driving, never replaced a front wheel bearing and never had an isue with front calipers sticking - compared to some cars they are quite well dsigned on the Espace.
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TheJoker
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 10:12:02 am »

Hi,

How did you notice that your wheel bearings were worn and needed changing? I have a slight ticking noise if I turn to the left "just a bit" - think long sweeping motorway corner. I have no noise when I turn otherwise. However, I do get a clunk if I do a bit violent turns, both to the left and to the right. Like something is "jumping" from one side to the other. Go left and I get one cluck, then I can do it again and I won't get anyhing. But If I go right I get a clunk, and then if I go right again, nothing. Then right again.
Just trying to diagnose what it might be.  Huh
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roy4matra
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2009, 11:08:16 pm »

I had an issue with my Grand Espace handbrake cables recently. All the time I'd owned it (2 years now) the handbrake  lever came up a long way. I asked th dealer to adjust the free play in the cable during a service, and then we found it was sticking on the LHS.  Now they wanted £180 GBP to change two cables!  and said my rear calipers needed changing too.  I disconnected the h/B cables on both sides and found the calipers were fine. I got a local garage to source a set of handbrake cables for £24 (not the £180 I was quoted by Renault) and they charged me £35 to fit them. No more issues with binding rear pads.  But they are very prone to getting water in them and going rusty and sticking - this local garage has changd quite a few and they always oil them with a motorcycle cable oiler before they fit them now and so far have never had one vehicle back.  The problem sems to be there is very litle movement from handbrake  fully off to fully on with the rear caliper, so it would be quite easy for one side to bind even just a little (ie not enouh to burn the pads out, but enough to cause premature wear - and then heat and then wheel bearing damage)

The Espace rear calipers are like the Murena ones, and you MUST not have the hand brake cable adjusted up with little or no free play.  The hand brake levers on the calipers MUST be able to return fully with the hand brake 'off' otherwise the internal self-adjust mechanism cannot work and you will end up with all sorts of problems.

Many people say you should have only three or four 'clicks' on the hand brake ratchet before it has pulled on.  If you do that on a Renault especially with rear discs, you will not have enough free play for the levers to return.  Often it is more like six or seven 'clicks'.  As long as the cables themselves are free and the levers return fully when 'off', the hand brake will be correct and you will have sufficient reserve travel to meet the M.o.T. standard - that is all the M.o.T. demands - that you have sufficient reserve travel, and that it meets at least 16% efficiency on the roller test.  Nowhere does it say anything about the number of clicks on the ratchet, so if any tester tries to fail a vehicle for too many 'clicks', as I have heard on a number of occasions, he is wrong. (and you can appeal if he insists)

With a floating caliper the (inner) pad pushed by the piston will always wear slightly faster than the outside one, but there should not be too much in it, otherwise there is a problem, possibly with something sticking.  And if something is sticking, the heat generated could be enough to cause bearing failures.

Finally with disc brakes the pads are always in contact with the discs, but when the vehicle is not being braked, it is so light that there is no wearing or heat and it is perfectly normal.

Roy
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colin4255
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2009, 11:09:33 pm »

Hi Joker. The noises you are hearing are not wheel bearing related, but far more likely to be worn driveshaft joints. Easy way to tell is find an empty care park, set off slowly, on tickover, with the vehicle on full lock and you'll probably hear a clicking or tinkling type sound - this will be the worn roller bearings in the driveshaft outer joint. Best way is get someone else to drive the car like this while you walk alongside (keeping well enough away not to get run over!) and if you hear that sort of noise its likely to be the bearings in the driveshaft joint that are worn. They have joints on inner and outer ends the outer ones tend to be the ones that wear out. From memory RHS driveshaft is much longer and has a carrier bearing half way along.

Worn wheel bearings make a droning or humming sound, which usually gets a lot worse when cornering 9 ie when you put weight and extra load on the bearing). The more worn they get, the louder the droning noise. I've run worn wheel bearings for quite a few thousand miles, but  you should get driveshafts looked at asap. Not sure I like the sound of the clunking.
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colin4255
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2009, 11:21:10 pm »

Back to the original post, Roy4matra is right. I did not explain very well. My handbrake lever was coming up more than 9 clicks and not properly holding the car (because the cable on one side was seized). It was only when the dealer tried to adjust it properly they found the issue. 6 to 7 clicks is about right - that translates into a very, very small movement at the pivot end on the caliper, and when released the cable must fully let off the caliper so the pistons in it do not let the pads bind because its the heat they generate while partially on that causes premature wear in things like wheel bearings. When correctly adjusted, the lever on the inside back of the caliper, to which the cable fits, will rest fully back on a notch with the H/b laver down, if its doesn't, your brakes will be binding. Easy to check, the cable ends are a doddle to un-hook. If once un-hooked the arm on the back of the caliper to which the cable connects, moves further back toward the rear of the car, then your cables are adjusted up too tightly.
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TheJoker
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2009, 10:57:12 am »

I'll try not to hijack the thread too much.

Thanks colin4255 for that input. I should have made it clearer that the car is quiet when going from lock-to-lock. However, I will have my partner drive the car in a circle somewhere and me walking next to it to listen to it. Just to make sure.
I can feel, in the steering wheel, a slight yank and clunk when turning the wheel about 10 - 20 degrees to the right. But this is apparently for another thread as there's no droning or humming noise. Thanks again!
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colin4255
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2009, 12:23:17 am »

Hi Joker.  OK, I see what you mean now. Its beginning to sound like something is worn either on the steering rack, or the inner or outer 'tie-rod' joints. If the clunk is as pronounced as you say, its likely if you jack up the car and remove the roadwheel, (one at a time as the worn joint could be on either side) you'll be able to see whats worn by having someone turn the steering wheel. While the rack and pinion bit of the steering rack is in the center of the vehicle, the rack is fastened to the wheel hub on each side by long thin metal parts that have a moving joint at either end. When these wear, you tend to feel play in the steering. IE you can turn the steering wheel left and right a little way and yet the road wheels don't move. If its clunking one of these joints could be badly worn or loose even. Usually enough wear to make the steering a bit vague won't be easy to see when you take the road wheels off and turn the steering wheel back and forth, but if its clunking when you move it, its likely you'd see which jont was worn.  The good news is even a garage won't charge a fortune to fix these steering joints as they are easy to swap and fairly cheap parts too. From memory, last time I had one inner and one outer joint replaced it cost less than £75 including labour and parts.  I'd be tempted to get even a decent tyre fitting place to have a look - they'll tell quite easily if one or more of the steering rack joints is worn.

Now a new rack is another thing altogether - quite costly , but its very unusual for the racks to fail - they are very heavy duty items on the espace as its more like a light commercial vehicle than a car.
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TheJoker
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« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2009, 10:51:48 am »

Thanks, Colin! The car is coming up for its MOT soon, so I might see if it goes through or if they find the problem. If I have time I might just lift the front up and see if I can detect any problems with the joints.  Cool
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Grand Espace 2.2 dCi 2001 Silver
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