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Author Topic: 2.2 water pump with alloy impeller - Solved  (Read 26091 times)
Oetker
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« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2019, 09:43:22 pm »

Another waterpump with different impeller is up for auction on E-bay.
I never saw this one before.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHRYSLER-SIMCA-1609-1610-160-180-2000-1971-0N-NEW-OE-WATER-PUMP-42339/312843741095?hash=item48d6f0a7a7:g:GeMAAOSwn~JdzUK~

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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Morne
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2019, 10:45:24 pm »

Thank you for the info and links  Smiley
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roy4matra
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« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2019, 03:52:07 am »


Looking at that impeller (although I would hardly call it that to be honest) I would suggest strongly that no one uses that on a 2.2 Murena!  The shape and design of those 'vanes' are so poor particularly for this application, that I seriously doubt they will move the coolant sufficiently.  What you have to remember, is that in all those front engined cars (1609, 1610, 160, 180, etc.) the pump is at the front of the engine which is right behind the radiator.  Therefore the coolant path from pump to radiator is very short.  In the Murena, not only is the engine located in a 'central box' where it gets less cooling airflow through it than a front engined car, but the path from the pump to radiator is much further, so the circulation has to be as good as possible, and preferably better than any front engine instalation.

One way the pump is efficient at moving coolant, is because the vanes are close to the casting so that as it rotates the coolant simply has to move.  In fact the gap between the vane tips and the casting is only 0.014" (or 14 thou' as we used to say).  And the tips of the vanes are at the same angle as the casting to be close along its length.

The problem with that incorrect 7-curved vane impeller was that the tips of the vanes were 'miles' away from the casting as well as being the wrong shape and also had big gaps between the vanes and the hub, so at low revolutions such as when idling, the coolant stayed where it was, slipping past the vanes and didn't circulate to the radiator.  This was also in part because of the increased inertia with all that distance between the pump and radiator and therefore the increased amount of coolant that needs to be circulated.

Now you can see from the photo of this impeller that it will not be efficient, just like that 7-curved vane impeller, since the humps formed to act like vanes means you really have only three vanes and they are simply never going to match the shape of the casting on that side, and on the face you can see which is inserted into the block they will be nowhere near anything to form a close gap to make sure the coolant moves!  At low revolutions the circulation is simply never going to be good enough for a 2.2 Murena.  Please do not use it.

Buy the pump if you need one, but change the impeller to the correct one.

Roy
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 04:01:09 am by roy4matra » Logged

Morne
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« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2019, 10:51:19 pm »

My Dolz water pump arrived today. I gather/trust this is the correctly shaped blades to ensure good circulation.

I also note the drain bolt (2nd photo)  Is this bolt just metal on metal? Or should a gasket be fitted?
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Oetker
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« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2019, 11:29:03 pm »

This one looks alright to me for the 1.6.
The problems we discus here are concerning the 2.2 pomps that ar totaly different.

Most 1.6 pumps I heve seen have a cupper ring.
To be sure mount a ring.


Also manual speaks of a ring.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 09:24:58 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
roy4matra
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« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2019, 01:07:35 am »

Reading the opening post on this thread by Roy, I noted the mention of a thermo switch and thermostat with reduced temp spec.

I have tracked down a recent link for the thermo switch : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kerr-Nelson-Radiator-Fan-Temperature-Switch-SRF060-GENUINE-5-YEAR-WARRANTY/163302372911?epid=22025605340&hash=item260594762f:g:kPUAAOSwJjNbuxov

However I was wonder how to track down a thermostat with lower than normal rating, as the normal rating seems to be 89'C.

Actually the original parts manual lists an 83 degree thermostat if I remember correctly, but if you check my website there are both thermostats and their part numbers listed on the Murena parts page.

Quote
Just to clarify I have a 1.6, so I trust the above thermo switch will work as I believe the 1.6 and 2.2 have the same radiator.
However I guess the thermostat will be different between the 1.6 and 2.2.

No, there is no reason for different tempertaure thermostats between the two engines.  They can both either use an 82 or 88 degree thermostat.  I would suggest the 82 (or it might be anything between 81 and 83 degrees) thermostat is used in hotter climates such as the south of France or Italy, whilst the 88 (range 87 to 89) would be used in colder areas such as the UK or Norway for example.  So the choice is yours to some extent and on where the car is being driven.  Use your temperature gauge to make sure the temperture stays around the 85-90 mark in normal use.  If you need it running higher or lower you select the appropriate thermostat.


Seeing your latest post Morne and the picture of the Dolz coolant pump, that is the pump for a 1.6 and not a 2.2 model, and this posting was specifically all about the 2.2 engine and coolant pump.  Since it appears you have a Murena 1.6, that pump looks OK and the impeller which faces away from the pump body looks about right.

The 2.2 coolant pump impeller vanes should always be facing towards the pump body, therefore in the opposite way to the 1.6 pump.  The impellers on the two pumps are totally different, and up to now I have not come across a 1.6 with an incorrect impeller.  This topic was specifically about the 2.2 impeller because there have been some fitted which do not work, but don't mix this up with your 1.6 Murena.


As for the radiator switch to activate the radiator fan, the originally fitted one was a 95/86 degree switch, meaning it cuts in at 95 and out at 86.  If you wanted it to come in earlier you could chose one such as the 87/82 switch that I mentioned, but note that means your system should never get above 87, so the thermostat in the engine would have to be an 82 because it wouldn't theoretically reach 88/89 to operate that thermostat.  I say theoretically because as explained, owing to the distance and tempreature drop between the engine and radiator, the engine will always run hotter than the radiator by around 3 degrees.  However, with an 87/82 switch it is likely the radiator fan will be running nearly all the time unless you run the engine 'cold' so this is not the switch you should be running in a Murena, particularly a 1.6 model.  Why would you want to run an 87/82 radiator switch?

Any standard Murena whether 1.6 or 2.2 should be using the 95/86 radiator switch, with either an 82 or 88 thermostat.

But to answer your question, there are a number of different switches available from many suppliers and one example is CBS, and you can simply pick what you want, as long as it fits the radiator and fulfills the job required of it.

Roy
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 01:43:52 am by roy4matra » Logged

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