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Author Topic: Getting ready for the road again  (Read 53582 times)
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #255 on: August 27, 2021, 06:26:12 am »

My friend Jesper came over to play and work on the engine yesterday evening. We completed removing the cylinder head, moving the cam and followers over to the new cylinder head. Here are some pictures from an evening of fun!
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
Murena1400
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« Reply #256 on: August 31, 2021, 03:20:15 pm »

Small thing to note, your fuel tank straps are the wrong way around, the short one is supposed to be below, the long one on the top. The rubber cover is actually exposed outwards, so flipped to your current configuration, and protects your hands during engine work.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #257 on: September 01, 2021, 07:32:13 am »

Small thing to note, your fuel tank straps are the wrong way around, the short one is supposed to be below, the long one on the top. The rubber cover is actually exposed outwards, so flipped to your current configuration, and protects your hands during engine work.

Thank you, Youri! You are absolutely right!

After studying the picture you DM'd me, I checked against this wide angle picture of the engine room just after I had taken the engine out.

/Anders
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 07:40:40 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
roy4matra
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« Reply #258 on: September 02, 2021, 01:03:28 am »

Small thing to note, your fuel tank straps are the wrong way around, the short one is supposed to be below, the long one on the top. The rubber cover is actually exposed outwards, so flipped to your current configuration, and protects your hands during engine work.

Thank you, Youri! You are absolutely right!

After studying the picture you DM'd me, I checked against this wide angle picture of the engine room just after I had taken the engine out.

/Anders

Whilst Youri is correct in this case, since this is a 2.2, it should be pointed out for completeness (and 1.6 owners) that on the Murena 1.6 the short strap at the top, is correct!  It appear Matra placed the inner fuel strap joint near the top on the 1.6 as there was plenty of room for access from the top, but then found that on the 2.2 model access from the top was limited and more difficult, especially when twin side-draught carbs. were fitted, so they switched them around and placed the joint nearer the bottom.

Roy
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #259 on: October 17, 2021, 07:10:38 am »

The problem with the cylinder head bolt being offset was easily solved once I got the head off the block again. As expected, there was a small lug in the bolt opening which just had to be filed off. This particular head had corrosion around the water channels and was therefore welded for me several years ago at the same time as it had the combustion chambers and ports polished. The head is now back on the block, and I'm preparing for doing a compression test.

Before I get to that I have to finish assembly of a few items and I have a doubt about torque for some bolts and the chain guides.

The upper chain gear is fixed to the cam with three bolts. My German Tagora manual tells me to torque them with the "vorgeschreibten moment", but I can't find the specification in the manual. I have tightenend them "properly" with a short spanner but if there is a torque specification somewhere, I'll use that.

The other doubt is about the exhaust side chain guide. This has rather large bolt holes in it so it can be positioned properly against the chain, but I'm unsure how hard it should push against the chain. The manual, again, is a bit unclear:

"Die beiden Führungsschienen der Steuerkette befestgen, Markierun des Nockenwellenzahnrads zur Markierung des Zylinderkopfs ausrichten, hierzy die Steuerkette in Motordrehrichtung spannen (gespannter Teil der Kette auf der dem Kettenspanner gegenügerliegenden Seite, also an der Geraden Führungsscheine)"

(German is a wonderful language!)

This essentially instructs me to tighten the guides so that the cam is correctly timed, but does not say how tight the chain should run against the guides, i.e. how much play can I allow before I release the chain tensioner to the its work. I know the chain tensioner does the real work to keep the chain tight, but the timing is essentially controlled by the top end of the exhaust side guide and also has an influence on the chain tension.

Should I just tighten it so the timing is right, and be ok with that?

« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 07:13:37 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
roy4matra
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« Reply #260 on: October 17, 2021, 12:16:58 pm »

The problem with the cylinder head bolt being offset was easily solved once I got the head off the block again. As expected, there was a small lug in the bolt opening which just had to be filed off. This particular head had corrosion around the water channels and was therefore welded for me several years ago at the same time as it had the combustion chambers and ports polished. The head is now back on the block, and I'm preparing for doing a compression test.

Before I get to that I have to finish assembly of a few items and I have a doubt about torque for some bolts and the chain guides.

The upper chain gear is fixed to the cam with three bolts. My German Tagora manual tells me to torque them with the "vorgeschreibten moment", but I can't find the specification in the manual. I have tightenend them "properly" with a short spanner but if there is a torque specification somewhere, I'll use that.

The other doubt is about the exhaust side chain guide. This has rather large bolt holes in it so it can be positioned properly against the chain, but I'm unsure how hard it should push against the chain. The manual, again, is a bit unclear:

"Die beiden Führungsschienen der Steuerkette befestgen, Markierun des Nockenwellenzahnrads zur Markierung des Zylinderkopfs ausrichten, hierzy die Steuerkette in Motordrehrichtung spannen (gespannter Teil der Kette auf der dem Kettenspanner gegenügerliegenden Seite, also an der Geraden Führungsscheine)"

(German is a wonderful language!)

This essentially instructs me to tighten the guides so that the cam is correctly timed, but does not say how tight the chain should run against the guides, i.e. how much play can I allow before I release the chain tensioner to the its work. I know the chain tensioner does the real work to keep the chain tight, but the timing is essentially controlled by the top end of the exhaust side guide and also has an influence on the chain tension.

Should I just tighten it so the timing is right, and be ok with that?



Anders (and any others rebuilding the 2.2)  all the tightening torques have been on my website for years, since the 2.2 engine was not covered in the Matra Murena workshop manual.  However, they are in the Tagora workshop manual.  Take a look in the technical articles menu and webpage and you will find a file there.  Those small 6mm bolts are all quite low and you can overtighten by hand if you have a long spanner so be careful.

As for the chain guides, push them firmly by hand against the chain.  The straight section of chain should be tight anyway if you have pulled the cam around correctly to time the engine.  So push that straight guide firmly against it, 'firmly' here means you are not moving the chain from its already straight line.  As for the curved guide, push that firmly (with the same push as for the straight side) so that it takes all the slack out of the 'return' chain.  Whilst these might suggest the chain will wear the guide faces, in practice once the engine runs there will be a bit of movement anyway, and the faces of the guides are hard and if you examine them now you will see only a small wear marking on them.  Once you release the tensioner that will control any slight movement from the engine running.

If you left the guides not close enough to the chain and the chain was slack, that would actually cause more damage as the chain would be slapping the guide faces.

Roy
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 12:21:09 pm by roy4matra » Logged

Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #261 on: October 31, 2021, 01:33:12 pm »

Some progress made during recent weeks:

  • I found the torque numbers, both on Roy's web site and in the manual Cheesy
  • All bolts torqued down as specified
  • Cam chain covers fitted. I've used red silicone sealant. Also torqued down as specified.  Cool
  • Blanked off water pump housing fitted.
  • New inlet and exhaust studs fitted. I found some 7 mm BMW studs which are the same length on the side going into the cylinder head, but a little longer on the outside. Also they have a nice torx head on top to help screw them in  Tongue
  • Crank pulley fitted. That proved impossible to fit at first, but after "baking" in the oven at 160 degrees for 20 minutes, I managed to push it onto the crank a few mm with my hand, and then carefully tap it further down with a piece of wood and a small hammer until the centre bolt could reach the thread. I finally tightened it with my impact wrench.

Next job is to lift the engine off the rig so I can remove the sump, and clean and refit it with a new gasket.

I haven't checked the compression yet as I'm going to wait until the sump is clean and I have new oil in the engine.

I plan to deliver the flywheel to the machine shop for lightening next Friday.

Best,
Anders

« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 06:35:03 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
Anders Dinsen
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Posts: 3133



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« Reply #262 on: November 06, 2021, 08:12:48 am »

I had a nice trip to the machine shop and went on to pick up some hoses for the enigne room.

I'm changing a bit due to the electrical water pump and I have worked out how to fit the booster pump that will provide a constantly running flow of water through the thermostat housing, heater, and bypass hose (for warming up the inlet manifold on cars with single carburettors). Since the water pump housing and the pipe on the front of the engine both has 25 mm attachments while the booster pump is only 16 mm, I needed some 90 degrees reducers. I'll post pictures when I get around fitting it in the engine room as obviously I won't fit it until I have the enigne back where it belongs. That is a few months away, I think.

New brake lines shown in the picture.

The machine shop will work on my flywheel now. I've communicated with Roy about how much to reduce it and where. I set a target around 7 kg with the shop, but it's not too important, and we agreed on no extremes. I fitted a new pressure plate on top of the flywheel before taking it to them so they can see exactly where and how much to they can reduce the outer edge. I discussed grinding off areas were the pressure plate is not touching the flywheel with them, but I decided not to as it will become too complicated. So we agreed on only lathe-work and balancing. I'm looking forward to getting back and hopefully getting a chance to visit their workshop shop. It was all very clean and with a few big and beautiful engines sitting inside Cool

Has anyone had expeirence with finding lighter pressure plates than standard? I think the sports clutch available from Politecnic is just harder, not lighter...

Still outstanding is to lift the engine with the crane so I can do the sump and sump gasket and doing the last bits on the engine room, some painting and other stuff. I won't have any more time this weekend, unfortunately...

/Anders
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 08:38:39 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
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