| Home  Blogs Help Search Login Register  
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 23 Print
Author Topic: Getting ready for the road again  (Read 118446 times)
MatraIan
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #150 on: April 19, 2020, 09:17:04 pm »

Hi Anders.
With help from Roy to get my 2.2 engine out We lowered the car and sat the engine On the sump on a small wheeled trolley only 4.5cm high. Then lifted the car up.
I seem to recall I had the front wheels off and on axle stands to get it tipped up lower at the front so the back didn’t need lifting as high. It still has to go up very high.
Take the dipstick out so you don’t break it as you drag the engine out from underneath. !!
Ian.
No doubt Roy will reply soon with a few tips.
Logged

Murena 2.2 S Red 1984, Rover 600 ti, BMW 1 coupe M sport. Mercedes C class CGI sport
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #151 on: April 19, 2020, 09:56:44 pm »

Thanks, Ian!

Take the dipstick out so you don’t break it as you drag the engine out from underneath. !!

Sounds like you removed the valve cover to get more clearance? I think I can do my work with the engine on the floor, still in the engine room. Do you remember how you realigned it?

4.5 cm is very little... Wheels like these are 30 mm diameter, but can only carry 20 kg, so will need 8-10 on an 8 or 10 mm plywood board Smiley
Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1199



« Reply #152 on: April 19, 2020, 11:17:26 pm »

I understand your difficulty in fitting the shock absorber, but it is strange that the bracket is not welded at the correct angle as I have photos here from an earlier Politecnic semi-trailing arm that shows they were being welded on at an angle. (see photo)  I wonder why these are not?  I would certainly write to Politecnic to complain and and show them the photos showing how they are wrong.  We need them to change back to have them correct.

Thanks Roy. I'll keep you updated on their response. I agree, at least we should make sure future ones will be correct!

I'm going to write to Cyril on a general basis because I know their arm has changed and they don't seem to realise it has, but I have proof.  They have told someone else that theirs is definitely correct and no one has ever complained before, so it will be good to know at least one person has!  I really don't understand why no one is complaining that these brackets are at the wrong angle.

Quote
My next job is taking the engine out. I've never done it before, but I know it's not complicated. However, I can't fit a crane in my garage so I've thought about how to do it. I'm considering buying an engine bar like the one in the picture below. The workshop manual describes a similar tool for suspending the engine while removing the gearbox on the 2.2 (pictured too). My idea is using the bar and the handles on it to carefully lower the engine to the ground.

Whilst this is certainly one way and it can work Anders, there is an even easier way, and you don't have to buy any tool!  The first time I took a powertrain (i.e. combined engine and transaxle) out, I used my engine crane and it did work, but it will only work for a Murena without a rear spoiler.  The first time I had a Murena with a rear spoiler the crane was no longer good enough as the rear was too high for it.  So I made a tool (similar to that professional one) by buying a length of square tube and drilling three holes through it at certain points, and I also bought two long threaded rods which I had one end of each bent to form hooks.  But the lengths have to be such that you have to remove the rear glass 'tailgate'.  Then you can put the rods through the tube, attach chains or cables to the powertrain, and after removing all that is needed, you then lower the engine to the floor and lift the rear of the body/chassis high enough, put it on stands so the powertrain can be slid out from underneath.

However, since then I have worked out an even better idea that means you don't need to buy or make any tool, nor remove the glass.  [now updated, as I had forgotten a couple of things!]

You remove all that is necessary as is normal, and when all you have left is the two cross mountings bolts and the stabiliser bar, you lower the rear of the car until it is virtually on the floor.  Now you need a piece of wood to brace the engine to the forward bulkhead and remove the stabiliser link.  Next remove the two cross bolts, one at a time, and lower the sump that final inch onto the floor or your low support panel or trolley.  Please note down the number of large spacer washers and how many each side of the engine and gearbox mountings, so you know for when refitting.  The powertrain will now be sitting quite stable on the floor.  Finally you jack the rear of the car back up high enough so you can slide the powertrain out from underneath. (and as Andrew has said you can remove the rear gear change pivot bracket which is only 4 bolts, to give you more clearance)  I have done it with the engine sitting on a large piece of hardboard which will slide on the floor, but in Ian's case he had a large piece wood with four 'wheels' so we could roll it out.  The 'wheels' were actually small old roller bearings fastened to the sides of the wood, which is why it was so low and ideal for the job!

If you plan to remove the sump with the engine suspended above you, please, please remember to remove the oil level sensor first before you undo any sump bolts!  If you attempt to lower the sump with the sensor still in place, you will damage it, and they have not been available for many years.

Quote
I plan to then lift the chassis back up as high as possible and put it back on stands. I should then have access to do the jobs I need to do...

Any thoughts on this?

Anders

As I stated above it is right to lift the car high, but if you leave the powertrain under the car and attempt to work on it there, it will take more effort, and it will be much easier if you bring it out from underneath and then work on it comfortably.  Once you have finished, you do the reverse and slide it back underneath, lower the car back almost to the floor, if necessary lever up one end slightly to insert the cross bolt through that mounting, then do the same on the opposite side, and attach the stabiliser.  Now you can raise the car back to a comfortable height and place the chassis back on stands.  Now you can finish putting the rest back.

I have done this now quite a number of times and it really is the easiest way if you don't have access to garage type facilities.

A couple more points...  When you undo the sump there are 24 bolts in total, 22 x 7mm ones and 2 x 10mm, so make sure you have them ALL out.  There are two at the rear by the flywheel that are recessed and often get missed.

If you intend to remove the lower timing case without taking the top one off I think you will be in trouble.  The head gasket is trapped between the two parts of the timing case and there are two vertical bolts fastening them together.  Both the upper and lower timing cases are doweled on to the block and head. (the dowels are dowel sleeves with a bolt through them)  So if you manage to get the lower timing case off, you risk damaging the head gasket joint between them.  And fitting it back will be difficult too.

Before you lower the powertrain, make sure you remove the alternator otherwise it gets in the way.

And no, it is not necessary to remove the cam cover.  It is prudent to remove the fuel pump and distributor as these stick up and are vulnerable.  I only broke the top of the dipstick as the loop got bent over and I tried to bend it back, but it broke instead.  And this was not whilst pulling the powertrain out from underneath, it was whilst we were undoing and removing things at the top of the engine.

That wheel you have in your posting is much too big. Smiley

Roy
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 02:22:13 pm by roy4matra » Logged

Matraman
Full Member
***
Posts: 74


« Reply #153 on: April 20, 2020, 09:00:03 am »

Having just done engine removal and refitting recently, the other part I would remove is the rear gear change pivot, which is one less thing to steer the engine round as you slide it in and out. It's the one which is attached to the rear of the engine bay and is just 4 simple nuts and bolts. I only removed mine after the engine was back in, because I was fitting a new ball he socket joint to it, I realised then it would have saved me a few more centimetres of car lifting.

I happened to have a hydraulic bike lift,which is on wheels and has 2 parallel platforms which lower down to 10 cm above the ground. It can support the engine and gearbox and it raises up to about 50  cm. They are about £150 new, but you might find one on eBay for less.
Logged

Andrew
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #154 on: April 22, 2020, 07:29:42 am »

Thanks a lot, both. I've started the process!

Roy, I will try without lifting tools - it seems quite doable.

I've pushed the car forward in the garage so I can have the engine sitting behind it and still close the garage door. With all the body panels removed, I have a little more space to access than otherwise.

I'm going to put the powertrain down on a plywood board and roll it out on wooden rods. I worked for about two hours yesterday evening until the sun set, and I'm still only working on the carburettors. The airbox is my own design, welded up beautifully by Frederik Moes, and while it has worked excellently since I coverted to the DCOE's, it's obviously not practical from a servicing point of view, so I'm thinking of fitting something better.

Best,
Anders
Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
TELBOY
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 422



« Reply #155 on: April 22, 2020, 06:05:29 pm »

Can I have your engine please? Never seen one so clean!
Logged
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #156 on: April 22, 2020, 07:10:27 pm »

Can I have your engine please? Never seen one so clean!

The one in Roy's photo? Absolutely not - it's not mine Cheesy

(but it sure looks splendid!)
Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
MatraIan
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #157 on: April 23, 2020, 11:44:06 am »

Hi All
That engine/gearbox is mine.
I was upgrading to one of the new Piper cams, but the engine hadn't run for a while, and it was a mess to start with. More oil on the outside than in i think!!
Got some pics somewhere of the state it was in when removed.
Roy came up to help dismantle. I cleaned the block and head with degreaser and sent them both for an utrasonic clean, before painting and rebuilding. Roy rebuilt and it was fitted with new piston rings, new main and big end bearing.
Gearbox was degreased then water bead blasted.
It was stripped and rebuilt with new synchro rings, replacent 3rd/4th gear hub ring, and new input shaft bearing.
After it was reassembled and in the car, i decided i would like the higher 5th gear ratio upgrade so sourced the parts and Roy fiited it. This can done whilst in the car fortunately. I do have enough extra parts for another set but bear in mind the selector fork and casing need grinding down slightly.
It's not quite as clean now, its getting dusty whilst i am working on rest of the car.
Ian
Logged

Murena 2.2 S Red 1984, Rover 600 ti, BMW 1 coupe M sport. Mercedes C class CGI sport
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #158 on: April 25, 2020, 08:23:15 am »

Hi all,

Just a quick note to add that I've received a very positive and helpful reply from Politecnic and will be double checking the trailing arms this weekend. They replied very quickly - unfortunately, I've been less quick to reply back - but that's entirely on my part (unlike some, my worklife is actually quite busy during the crisis)!

Happy weekend, y'all!  Wink

/Anders
Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #159 on: April 25, 2020, 09:38:18 pm »

I removed the carburettors today. It doesn't seem necessary only to take the engine out, but it's just much easier to access things from above when they're off, and they had to be taken off anyway. Next up is disconnecting cabling and water. I will be removing all the cabling as I'll be preparing the wiring loom for the electric water pump installation anyway. I'll also remove the trailing arms tomorrow to check them against Politecnic's specifications.

/Anders
Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #160 on: April 26, 2020, 05:43:02 pm »

I didn't get much time to attend to the car today, but what I had I used under the rear end removing the gear change pivot and the exhaust manifold. Interestingly (in an unpleasant way) it revealed a problem with one of the cylinders clearly leaking oil into the exhaust. I'm thinking either a piston ring problem or (more likely?) a valve stem seal. I'm going to do a compression check on the engine while it's still in the car, hopefully that will provide some input for a diagnosis. Any comments or suggestions?

/Anders
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 06:08:47 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
TELBOY
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 422



« Reply #161 on: April 26, 2020, 07:59:12 pm »

Never seen a 2.2 engine. Doesnt look much room in there. Couldnt you just  crack on and do a compression check once removed or do you  need to remove.too many ancillaries ?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 08:12:10 pm by TELBOY » Logged
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #162 on: April 27, 2020, 08:08:06 am »

Never seen a 2.2 engine. Doesnt look much room in there. Couldnt you just  crack on and do a compression check once removed or do you  need to remove.too many ancillaries ?

I probably could, but it would require some sort of suspension of the engine to avoid the risk of things turning around and getting caught. I think it's easier and safer to do it now that the engine is still in the car. It is a tight fit, especially since it's tilted towards the rear so the plugs are somewhat out of view from above, but it's not too difficult, especially not now that the exhaust manifold is gone (but getting those eight nuts off involved a good deal of arm twisting Grin )
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 08:23:01 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #163 on: April 27, 2020, 07:34:58 pm »

Hi all, I did the compression check this afternoon. Thanks to my son Jens for being patient while I struggled fitting the manometer to the plug hole. All four cylinders peak at 10,3 - 10,5 Bar after three turns, the wet one perhaps a little higher, which would make sense if there's oil leaking into cylinder. Plugs look the same, all three a little oily. I have a miniature camera that I will be able to use to look into the cylinders once the enigine is out.

My phone messed up the first video, but here are the other three, counted from the left:

Cylinder 2: https://www.flickr.com/gp/adinsen/Qcx543
Cylinder 3: https://flic.kr/p/2iV1orT
Cylinder 4: https://www.flickr.com/gp/adinsen/Scy88b

/Anders
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 06:05:53 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3186



WWW
« Reply #164 on: April 28, 2020, 10:00:25 pm »

I made a little progress this evening as I removed the wiring loom and distributor.

As Roy noted below, the wiring loom only needs to be disconnected by the green connector on the right side of the engine room and can be left on the engine. However, years ago I fitted an alarm with various custom wiring, which I'll now remove. Instead, I'll make some new custom wiring for the electric water pump installation. So I found it easier to take it off the engine now.

Next steps are removing the generator, draining coolant, and disconnecting all the water hoses, disconnecting the oil level sensor, double checking everything, lowering the car, removing the trailing arms, and then I'll hopefully be ready to unfasten the engine mount bolts and lower the combined engine and transmission onto the ground Smiley

/Anders
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 10:36:23 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 23 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to: