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Author Topic: Espace III  (Read 556 times)
roy4matra
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« on: November 23, 2020, 01:52:16 pm »

In case you have not visited my website and FAQ pages for some time, I have now added another couple of pages regarding the Espace III, mainly to warn prospective owners of the fact that some necessary items are no longer available anywhere, and if one of these fails you could have a vehicle you can't repair.  Well you might be able to repair it if you design and make something yourself, but you won't be able to simply buy a manufacturer spare!

Roy
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pduke
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2020, 02:07:58 pm »

This seems like an end to an era. And it is very sad. I already have a JE under my scope... It is for sale near me and nobody wants it. Stationary for since 2015 (imagine the plastic parts sitting there, getting worse every day.... Sad )
Now with such news, on one hand you want to avoid any Matra Espace ΙII for the obvious reasons, but on the other hand if you don't get one now... you will never get one!! Sad

Since we talked about this and you highly recomended that i should drop such plans, this master clutch cylinder has become a nightmare to me.

quoting from your site:

[quote  link=http://www.matraclub.org.uk/faqh.htm]
.....Finally, you should know that certain essential parts are now unavailable anywhere and a failure in any of those will render the vehicle unusable unless you design and make your own alternative. One good example here is the clutch master cylinder on many of the manual models. These master cylinders are plastic, both body and piston, and the clutch fluid system was a sealed system, so when it failed you had to replace the complete system which came pre-bled in a complete kit. They have not been available for a long time, so you cannot fix the clutch unless you design and make your own system. There are other plastic parts that will have become hard and brittle with age and heat, and if you break one and cannot get a replacement, again you would have to devise and make your own alternative. They have quick release coolant hose couplings that are part plastic and will often break when trying to get them apart. Electronic parts, plus software and computers that are twenty years old are a problem in any sphere - you only have to think about your home computer or phones from 20 years ago to understand how this could be a problem, so when we are talking about a dedicated item for a little made car subjected to heat, cold, wet, or damp, as well as dirt and vibration over all those years, you should see there are likely to be major problems......

[/quote]

Where is this thing? why i can't find it in any car parts online shop? Off course this is the whole point of this post you might say but ...... WHY can't i find it even in the manuals!! (eg https://bit.ly/EspaceJE_Clutch)

a parts number anywhere?

also...
3D printers .. could this be a solution for such plastic parts? is there a material as durable available for 3D printing parts?

cheers,
Pan








« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 02:15:26 pm by pduke » Logged
roy4matra
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Posts: 1084



« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2020, 06:08:19 pm »

This seems like an end to an era. And it is very sad. I already have a JE under my scope... It is for sale near me and nobody wants it. Stationary for since 2015 (imagine the plastic parts sitting there, getting worse every day.... Sad )
Now with such news, on one hand you want to avoid any Matra Espace ΙII for the obvious reasons, but on the other hand if you don't get one now... you will never get one!! Sad

Since we talked about this and you highly recomended that i should drop such plans, this master clutch cylinder has become a nightmare to me.

[snipped long quote]

Where is this thing? why i can't find it in any car parts online shop?


No one wants it, because you can't get parts for them and they are a liability!

The part is listed in the old Dialogys parts system and I can look them up on my copy, (but they are not in the section on the clutch but in the pedal controls section) and since they have not been available for a long time, you won't find them listed on-line as there is absolutely no point!

Quote
WHY can't i find it even in the manuals!! (eg https://bit.ly/EspaceJE_Clutch) a parts number anywhere?

First that drawing relates to a different version of the Espace III (and clutch) anyway as it shows an internal annular slave cylinder. (dotted outline)  The version no longer available, has an externally mounted slave cylinder and one version has a short link cable, which breaks too and is not available.

However, as I have just stated, they are not where you think they might be.  You would normally expect to see a clutch master cylinder listed in the clutch section (section 20) but since these are a completely sealed clutch hydraulic system not just a master cylinder, they are not in section 20.

Quote
also...
3D printers .. could this be a solution for such plastic parts? is there a material as durable available for 3D printing parts?

Again as I have pointed out it is a sealed system that includes a clutch master cylinder, a long pre-shaped plastic and metal pipe, a snap coupling, a further pre-shaped pipe, and a slave cylinder, and it covers a large area.  You could never 3D print it!  (And if it was possible, certainly not for the small numbers required and at an affordable price)

Roy
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 09:44:44 am by roy4matra » Logged

Brad
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Posts: 4

Brad


« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2021, 05:00:10 pm »

In case you have not visited my website and FAQ pages for some time, I have now added another couple of pages regarding the Espace III, mainly to warn prospective owners of the fact that some necessary items are no longer available anywhere, and if one of these fails you could have a vehicle you can't repair.  Well you might be able to repair it if you design and make something yourself, but you won't be able to simply buy a manufacturer spare!

Roy

A fair warning, indeed.

I have two 2001/2 Grand Espace  III 3.0 24v cars which, thankfully, are running well. One has done almost 55000 miles (Privilege) and the other 65000 miles (Initiale).

I am concerned about brittle plastics, wet ECUs and a fear that a simple need for a new windscreen might write off one of these cars.

But thatís the joy, isnít it. The challenge. After 43 years of Renaults from a lovely but rusted out Renault 10 via a selection of 5, 6, another 10, 17, 19, 25, 30, Safrane, six Vel Satis, three Avantimes and five Espaces ..I have learned to find a way around a number of issues. My current everyday car is a 3.5 Vel Satis and it is incredibly reliable and cheap to maintain.

I hope there are members on this forum much more knowledgeable than me as I fear help might be needed with my two Mark III cars very soon.

Cheers.

Brad

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roy4matra
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2021, 03:49:24 pm »

... and a fear that a simple need for a new windscreen might write off one of these cars.

Brad

A windscreen is one thing you probably can get although it might be a little more costly than when these Espace III were in current production or just after.

If you need glass, particularly a windscreen for something unusual, always try UROglas because I have been dealing with them since the nineties and they still stock windscreens for the Murena which is now 40 years old!  An Espace I owner in the 'States needed a new screen after a part of a tree dropped on his, fortunately when parked, and even though they did not have one at the time, one was made and provided for £600.

They can even offer heated windscreens for cars that didn't have them originally, although again if done as a one-off they might be something like £600.  I've actually considered one for my Murena as it would be a lovely addition to it.

Roy
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