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Author Topic: Dan's 1.6 repairs  (Read 16078 times)
Grapes
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« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2021, 10:40:14 am »

Excellent! Thanks! I already had the suspicion I would need a hand here Wink
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Grapes
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« Reply #106 on: October 28, 2021, 05:22:38 pm »

OK, small update, I'm going to check the gearbox with someone who has done revisions before. Its apparently probably just one or more of the seals. I'll also try and join in on the repairs where I can to try and learn as much as I can. Will update in a few weeks when we've had a look.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #107 on: November 02, 2021, 07:06:59 pm »

Simple 14" steel but already much better   Grin
I do miss a little bit of the stiffer feel of the 16" so I may search for 15" alloys but I'm selling the AZEV set.
They also aligned it and informed me that the suspension on the left side might need more work than just new shocks but I'll look at that further with a mechanic.

What are the tyre sizes front and rear now on those 14" steel rims?  They just don't look right in the photo but I could be wrong.

Also the car looks to be sitting too high both front and rear, and it may be because it was raised to fit those larger AZEV wheel wheels and large tyres.  Is there a spare wheel and tyre in the front?  The car needs the weight of that for balance.

Roy
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roy4matra
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« Reply #108 on: November 02, 2021, 07:26:08 pm »

Time for a new adventure! :S
So I noticed the gearbox is dripping fluid. I think it already did a while ago but only maybe one or two drops over a long time. If I recall correctly Roy remarked that the seals needed replacing when I posted some pictures of several of my question points last year.

I can't find the photos in this topic posting anywhere, were they in another posting?

I wanted to see where the leak appeared to be from, and what seals I recommended replacing.  If it is the drive shaft output seals then the transmission would need to come out or at least away from the engine I think, as the RH flange on the side next to the engine may not come off with the transmission still fitted.  The left side drive shaft seal could be changed with the transmission still fitted as that side can be accessed once the drive shaft is out.

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My idea was to get a spare gearbox and just swap it out with the current one so I could be back on the road quickly. However I assume a second hand salvaged gearbox may also need work no matter what the seller will claim about the condition.

That aside I think I've got the following main questions:
Are there any other cars that use the same gearbox as the 1.6 that I can search for if I can't find a 1.6 one?
Where can I find the parts I need to stop the gearbox from leaking? I tried Simon-auto who seem to have much more parts than Carjoy but I couldn't find it on the website.
And just to prepare myself mentally for the task ahead... How hard is this compared to e.g. replacing the seal on the rocker cover or the fuel and water pump?

The complete transmission is not the same as on any other car, as it was designed to fit the mid-engined Murena.  There are parts that will be the same as the transmission is made up of parts that are fitted to various Talbot and Lancia cars but in each case they are adapted for the particular installation.

As for working on them with your very basic knowledge, no I would not recommend it.  The fact that you pose the question of how does it compare with changing the rocker cover or fuel pump gaskets (which are easy) shows you really don't have the knowledge or understanding to attempt this on your own, sorry.

Roy
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Grapes
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« Reply #109 on: November 02, 2021, 08:08:08 pm »

Hi Roy,

I'll check the wheels but the entire suspension is messed up according to the place that helped me fit the tires. They found the specs for the Murena alignment as well so they aligned it as best as they could which did help the overall feel but its still hanging off to the driver side.

I found someone who can help me with the transmission. He does his own maintenance on all his cars including a 1.6 since the 80s so I hope I'm in good hands there. And I have bought a spare 1.6 transmission just in case mine ever does go all wrong. I will have that one checked out as well.
The pictures where in another thread. Let me check if I can find it.

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,3390.0.html
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Grapes
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« Reply #110 on: November 06, 2021, 08:37:54 pm »

Hope this image is not too big...
Just noticed this image from the brochure. Never seen these wheels before. Does anyone know if these where ever sold with the Murena and where I could find them?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 08:41:44 pm by Grapes » Logged
suffolkpete
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« Reply #111 on: November 07, 2021, 08:05:28 pm »

These look like the standard wheels fitted to the 1.6.  Most people opted for the optional alloys (standard on the 2.2)  I wouldn't recommend using them because the tyre size for the rear wheels, 195/70 x 13, is no longer available  and the next size down that fits, 185/70 x 13 can cause the car to be a little tail happy.  I know this from personal experience.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #112 on: November 08, 2021, 03:31:25 pm »

Hope this image is not too big...
Just noticed this image from the brochure. Never seen these wheels before. Does anyone know if these where ever sold with the Murena and where I could find them?

Those 13" diameter steel wheels were the standard fitment on a 1.6 Murena, as Peter has pointed out.  Some people opted for the 14" dia. alloy wheels, but you only got 4 on the car - the spare remained a steel 13" wheel and front tyre.  Owners may have fitted alloys later, and some of this may be since the 13" tyres are becoming difficult to obtain. They are still available but as they are classed as 'vintage' (which is strictly an incorrect term as vintage is pre-1930) then you have to pay more for them, but if you want originality, you expect to pay more.  All old car tyre sizes are produced in relatively small batches each year, usually during the tyre factory holiday periods by people like Michelin, then stored by them, and consequently 'classic' tyre sizes and patterns are obviously more expensive.

Even 14" tyre sizes are starting to get difficult now as modern cars have moved on to even larger diameters, and the largest I've seen currently are 22" diameter!  We have gone full circle from those large sizes on veteran & vintage cars, right down to 10" on (proper) Minis, and now all the way back up again.  Main reason today is to fit bigger and bigger brakes to cope with the massive (and OTT in my opinion) power and speed now obtainable.

Roy
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Grapes
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« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2021, 10:16:58 am »

Ah well that explains why I never seen them before I guess. Thanks for the additional information!!
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Grapes
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« Reply #114 on: November 23, 2021, 12:51:58 pm »

Hi,

So my car wouldn't start last Saturday. Need to see if it's the starter motor or something else. I assume the starter but I'll have to try if I can somehow push start it by myself or pull start it with a tow car although I heard the towing rings are fragile?

In other news, I tried finding a new speedo cable and instrument panel.
(the conductive pins for the main connector are in a very bad state on mine and I suspect I won't be able to find just the plastic thing with the wiring?)

Regarding the speedo cable:
Got a quote for a new speedo cable for €75, even more than Carjoy sells them for and noticed that there's even "universal" speedo cable kits for around €10. Is there any reason to pay €55 for a speedo cable from Carjoy? Or can I just use one of those kits? I didn't see any alternatives listed on Roy's alt parts list either.

On to the starter motor. Since it's fairly likely that that's causing my starting problem I figured I'd swap it for a new one and have a stab at revising the old one. The manual steps seem fairly straightforward. However I tried to find the Valeo starter from Roy's part list and it seems to be largely out of stock. Does anyone know any others that will work on the X5J2A ? There's several parts sites that claim to have compatible ones like the 433304 Valeo or the 8EA 726 061-001 Hella. There is also some cheaper ones but these two are rated at a power of 1.2 and 1.05 KW respectively and the cheaper ones are only around 0.8 KW... figured a bit of power would be nice to have in this case?

Then finally the instrument panel.
I've gotten a quote for a used one at €125 which seems quite alright if it's otherwise in a better state than mine. Does anyone have experience what prices these normally go for?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 12:53:59 pm by Grapes » Logged
roy4matra
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« Reply #115 on: November 23, 2021, 07:16:20 pm »

Hi,

So my car wouldn't start last Saturday. Need to see if it's the starter motor or something else. I assume the starter...

First question is: why do you assume it's the starter motor?  Since you then say "... or something else."  If it is something else, it would probably have symptoms totally different to a starter motor failure.

Does the starter motor spin the engine over?  If it does, it is not the starter.  If it doesn't, it could be the ignition switch, the wiring, the solenoid, the motor, the battery or the earth braid; but you don't say what it is doing or not doing so you have given us no clues to what is happening and what may be wrong.

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"... or pull start it with a tow car although I heard the towing rings are fragile?

These cars don't have towing rings!  They do have hold down eyes.  Those two front and one rear hold down eyes are for quick easy fastening of the car on a transporter for delivery.  However, they do get used for towing, and as long as they haven't been damaged then they are fine for 'correct towing' and by that I mean you do not snatch at the towed car.

Quote
In other news, I tried finding a new speedo cable and instrument panel.
(the conductive pins for the main connector are in a very bad state on mine and I suspect I won't be able to find just the plastic thing with the wiring?)

Regarding the speedo cable:
Got a quote for a new speedo cable for €75, even more than Carjoy sells them for...  I didn't see any alternatives listed on Roy's alt parts list either.

There is no alternative!  You have a rare car.

These cables are unique to the Murena, like many other parts, and anything unique will cost far more than a normally mass produced part.  It drives from the back of the front hub, not the gearbox, which is the usual place for attaching a speedo cable.

Quote
On to the starter motor. Since it's fairly likely that that's causing my starting problem...

If you really have got a failed starter, then I have found two within 5 minutes on eBay, one at £72 and one at £80.

The Valeo part number 433304 is correct.  You have to be aware spare part numbers change and my website is not always up to date, but you can use cross referencing to check.  (I have now updated it)

Roy
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 10:32:02 pm by roy4matra » Logged

Grapes
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« Reply #116 on: November 25, 2021, 10:32:30 am »

If it doesn't, it could be the ignition switch, the wiring, the solenoid, the motor, the battery or the earth braid; but you don't say what it is doing or not doing so you have given us no clues to what is happening and what may be wrong.
Good point! Cheesy

Following checks done:
•Not turning over
•Battery measured good
•After turning the ignition the dashboard lights up
•Lamps all work
•Motor: runs

Still to be checked

•Solenoid: Will listen for a click when someone else turns the ignition. **update** I used my phone as a recording device to listen for the click and I didn't hear it so this could also be the problem.

How can I check the earth braid? I assume there's other options as well I've gone by assumption it's either the starter motor or the solenoid because another driver mentioned these are more likely to fail.


They do have hold down eyes.  Those two front and one rear hold down eyes are for quick easy fastening of the car on a transporter for delivery.
Aaaah yes that explains. I've used them before to tow though so I'll just go careful with them.


There is no alternative!  You have a rare car.
Righto, Carjoy/Simon it is then unless the local Simca Club warehouse still has one. Unfortunately they haven't replied to my e-mail yet.

The Valeo part number 433304 is correct. You have to be aware spare part numbers change.
That's great news and I didn't realise this at all so I'm glad to know it!

Thanks again Roy!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 04:29:59 pm by Grapes » Logged
Grapes
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« Reply #117 on: November 25, 2021, 04:34:05 pm »

Car ran when I pull started it. Even the starter motor worked some of the time when the car was running. Parked in the garage for now. Starter engine shows no more sign of life once I turned off the car.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #118 on: November 25, 2021, 09:22:32 pm »


Following checks done:
•Not turning over
•Battery measured good
•After turning the ignition the dashboard lights up
•Lamps all work
•Motor: runs

Still to be checked

•Solenoid: Will listen for a click when someone else turns the ignition. **update** I used my phone as a recording device to listen for the click and I didn't hear it so this could also be the problem.

If the engine doesn't turn over and there is no click from the starter solenoid, then you need to check the wire from the ignition switch is connected and providing 12 volts.  If the activation wire has come off the solenoid, then it gets no voltage and cannot work.  It could be that simple.  If it is connected, and there is 12 v there when the ignition key is in the start position, then it sounds like the solenoid may have failed.

Quote
How can I check the earth braid? I assume there's other options as well I've gone by assumption it's either the starter motor or the solenoid because another driver mentioned these are more likely to fail.

The earth braid is your main engine earth to carry the high current return from the starter.  It is connected from the transmission to the chassis underneath at the back.  As long as it is connected and in good order that is all you need to verify.

Roy
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Grapes
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« Reply #119 on: November 28, 2021, 11:50:36 pm »

OK let's talk wheels again. I am currently running winter tires on steel 14" fiat wheels and although nice I'm constantly on the look out for something new.
I searched the forums and found a thread from ages ago where you where all discussing getting wheels remade. As far as I could gather nothing has come from that. Additionally I noticed that Roy mentioned a preferred setup with 15" in front and 16" in the back.
We're a couple of years later now and I was wondering if I should indeed try and get wheels that mat h that set up because that might be ideal?

On a side note I saw a couple of very nice classic alfetta wheels for sale. All I could gather from the post was that they are 6J 14 H2 and have the correct bolt pattern. Even though they are 14 inch I would like to know if anyone knows they should fit the Murena. I figured I could use them for my winter tires...
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