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Author Topic: Wanted Air box + intake tube + Solex 34CIC carburator.  (Read 3869 times)
vagabond1977
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« on: January 30, 2022, 09:57:06 pm »

I wanted for 2.2 normal Murena:
Air box + intake tube + Solex 34CIC carburator.
See attached picture for description
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 10:05:01 pm by vagabond1977 » Logged
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2022, 07:10:24 am »

I think I you will be able to find the hoses. The filter box is pretty standard, I think, but the carburettors are rare items now.
Is yours an LPG converted Murena or is it a random photo you found on the net?

/Anders
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
vagabond1977
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Posts: 8


« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2022, 08:18:28 pm »

I think I you will be able to find the hoses. The filter box is pretty standard, I think, but the carburettors are rare items now.
Is yours an LPG converted Murena or is it a random photo you found on the net?

/Anders

Hello, it is random photo, I have standard 2.2 with Solex 34 CIC.
See the picture - carburator and air filter was modified by previus owner.
Me goal - restore to the original.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 08:13:22 am by vagabond1977 » Logged
roy4matra
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2022, 03:16:32 pm »

I think I you will be able to find the hoses. The filter box is pretty standard, I think, but the carburettors are rare items now.
Is yours an LPG converted Murena or is it a random photo you found on the net?

/Anders

Hello, it is random photo, I have standard 2.2 with Solex 34 CIC.
See the picture - carburator and air filter was modified by previus owner.
Me goal - restore to the original.

It's good that you wish to restore the original set up, because that modification in your photo, has the air filter intake near the top of the engine compartment where the air is very hot when running.  That reduces the power and is not good for the engine.  Hot air is less dense and contains less oxygen, hence slightly less power.  More importantly the hot intake is not good for combustion chamber temperatures.

The original air intake set up has the carburettor connected to the air filter housing, and this has a temperature controlled intake diaphragm underneath that selects warm air from between the block and exhaust when the engine is started and is cold, to aid warm up drivability.  It then opens, once up to temperature to close off the warm intake, and open the cold air intake low down where the air is picked up from the cool air flowing under the car.

The intake elbow on the top of the carb. contains the temperature valve which uses vacuum to open the diaphragm.

Roy
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 03:19:08 pm by roy4matra » Logged

vagabond1977
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Posts: 8


« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2022, 10:04:01 am »

Thanks for your comment
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Murena1400
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Posts: 19


« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2022, 10:11:38 am »

I think I you will be able to find the hoses. The filter box is pretty standard, I think, but the carburettors are rare items now.
Is yours an LPG converted Murena or is it a random photo you found on the net?

/Anders

Hello, it is random photo, I have standard 2.2 with Solex 34 CIC.
See the picture - carburator and air filter was modified by previus owner.
Me goal - restore to the original.

It's good that you wish to restore the original set up, because that modification in your photo, has the air filter intake near the top of the engine compartment where the air is very hot when running.  That reduces the power and is not good for the engine.  Hot air is less dense and contains less oxygen, hence slightly less power.  More importantly the hot intake is not good for combustion chamber temperatures.

The original air intake set up has the carburettor connected to the air filter housing, and this has a temperature controlled intake diaphragm underneath that selects warm air from between the block and exhaust when the engine is started and is cold, to aid warm up drivability.  It then opens, once up to temperature to close off the warm intake, and open the cold air intake low down where the air is picked up from the cool air flowing under the car.

The intake elbow on the top of the carb. contains the temperature valve which uses vacuum to open the diaphragm.

Roy

This is not completely right, the thermostat in the intake pipe tries to archieve a constant air stream of 20 degrees celsius, regardless of engine temperature.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2022, 01:22:14 pm »

This is not completely right, the thermostat in the intake pipe tries to archieve a constant air stream of 20 degrees celsius, regardless of engine temperature.

You are correct in that the intake system is trying to achieve a constant air intake around the 20 degrees mark, but since the engine bay temperatures soon are well above 20 degrees after the engine has been running only a short time, the hot intake will be closed or virtually closed, and the majority, if not all the air intake would come from the cooler air flowing under the car.   Don't forget that the hot radiator air is exhausting into the air flow under the car too.

Therefore during the warm up phase, the intake will blend air from the hot intake between the block and exhaust manifold, with cooler air where necessary to achive its setting, but very soon the majority will be from the 'cold' intake as the diaphragm closes off the hot intake.

In a warm or temperate climate which the Murena was primarily designed for, the ambient air plus warmth coming back from the radiator will be sufficient to provide that correct air intake temperature, without any hot air from the engine bay.

If the car is being used in a cold climate, the blending may be prolonged a little more time, but I would not expect it to be too long before the diapragm to the hot intake is virtually closed.  After all, the twin side-draught carb. set up on the Prep 142 and S versions don't have that variable intake, yet they manage very well after only a short time running from cold.

Roy
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Murena1400
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2022, 03:32:44 pm »

This is not completely right, the thermostat in the intake pipe tries to archieve a constant air stream of 20 degrees celsius, regardless of engine temperature.

You are correct in that the intake system is trying to achieve a constant air intake around the 20 degrees mark, but since the engine bay temperatures soon are well above 20 degrees after the engine has been running only a short time, the hot intake will be closed or virtually closed, and the majority, if not all the air intake would come from the cooler air flowing under the car.   Don't forget that the hot radiator air is exhausting into the air flow under the car too.

Therefore during the warm up phase, the intake will blend air from the hot intake between the block and exhaust manifold, with cooler air where necessary to achive its setting, but very soon the majority will be from the 'cold' intake as the diaphragm closes off the hot intake.

In a warm or temperate climate which the Murena was primarily designed for, the ambient air plus warmth coming back from the radiator will be sufficient to provide that correct air intake temperature, without any hot air from the engine bay.

If the car is being used in a cold climate, the blending may be prolonged a little more time, but I would not expect it to be too long before the diapragm to the hot intake is virtually closed.  After all, the twin side-draught carb. set up on the Prep 142 and S versions don't have that variable intake, yet they manage very well after only a short time running from cold.

Roy

The reason why the - S- models do not use this functionality is because they do not need it. It is a common issue with downdraft carburetors that they freeze up. The DDH/DHLA/DCOE family of carburetors do not have these issues, in contrary, they prefer colder intake air to function properly.

On the K142 the mixer was not removed, but was disconnected to remain in the open position. As Matra completely copied the Gutmann 142 conversion (Gutmann did the same thing).
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roy4matra
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2022, 05:47:20 pm »

The reason why the - S- models do not use this functionality is because they do not need it. It is a common issue with downdraft carburetors that they freeze up. The DDH/DHLA/DCOE family of carburetors do not have these issues, in contrary, they prefer colder intake air to function properly.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you that freezing is a common fault, and I've never experienced any down-draught carburettors freezing up in the U.K. or all my years of driving.  I have experienced fuel vaporisation in a carburettor owing the air being too hot, and it can even happen easily if you have the wrong in the tank for the time of year.  As you know fuel companies change the volatility at different times of the year to match the seasons.  The main reason for warming the intake, both air and manifold, is to keep the fuel atomised so that it turns through the 90 degrees without the fuel separating from the aerated mixture, and any that does, soon emulsifies again owing to the warmth of the airflow over it.

Quote
On the K142 the mixer was not removed, but was disconnected to remain in the open position. As Matra completely copied the Gutmann 142 conversion (Gutmann did the same thing).

Whether Matra copied Gutmann or not is a mute point, as all engine technicians know that air intake warming is rarely ever required with side-draught carburettors, and I'm sure the Matra engineers would certainly know that, but the carburettor companies which provide the equipment certainly do, and would advise any manufacturer if necessary.

For the Prep 142, of course the dealers left the mixer valve fitted but disconnected, since their was nothing to connect the vacuum valve to anyway, but a dealer never does any work that is unnecessary unless someone is paying for it!  I have worked most of my life for dealers so I know what they are like.  But when Matra made the 'S' there was no point in fitting items that were not required any longer.

It is notable that Matra designed and cast their inlet manifold properly for their twin side-draught carb. set up in the 142 and 'S' models, and since Matra owned Solex at the time the Murena was produced, they had their experts who would have advised or been involved in the conversion.  None of the after market inlet manifolds are any good in the Murena as the left hand carburettor is far too close to the fuel tank.  With many there isn't even enough room to fit a proper air filter.  So unless Gutmann had their own version of the Matra inlet manifold, then I'm sorry but I don't believe Matra copied anything.

Roy
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 05:51:00 pm by roy4matra » Logged

Murenanimal
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2022, 08:52:27 am »

I wanted for 2.2 normal Murena:
Air box + intake tube + Solex 34CIC carburator.
See attached picture for description
Can be found, once in a while at “Leboncoin” in France, kind of EBay.fr which you could try too
At Leboncoin search for Matra Murena in “equipement voitures”.
Kind regards from Belgium
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