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Author Topic: Grip grip.. I NEED MORE GRIP!!  (Read 6179 times)
krede
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« on: April 08, 2007, 11:50:13 pm »

Am I the only one struggeling in this weather?...
I know that rwd midengined cars arnt much use on rainy days but I didnt expect it to be THIS bad!!  Shocked
The grip in my front tires is appaling to say the least, and handling in the wet is down right terrifying, with loads and loads of understear, and the front brakes very prone to locking.

I will try to have a new set of tires fitted next week, but i feel that the cause for much of my misery it the fact that very little weight is resting on the front wheels.
Perhaps it would help if I also dropped the nose an inch or two?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2007, 11:51:48 pm by krede » Logged
macaroni
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Murena and Multipla - I like it 3 abreast!


« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 10:16:47 am »

Check out this Tyres thread...

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=329.0

On the Firestones that came with my car, I was seriously worried about driving in the rain. Severe understeer, ploughing straight on under braking and a very wayward rear end. (The car was pretty scary too...).

With a set of Bridgestones on, the car was transformed and they can be had in both front and rear sizes so they all match.

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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 11:20:37 pm »

Krede, since you are in Denmark, you might still be looking for winter tyres (?) - in that case I can certainly recommend those Goodyear Ultragrip 5 I mention in the thread Macaroni pointed at. I know there is a version 6, but I don't think it is as grippy as version 5. (beware of old-stock tyres, though)

But shock absorbers could also affect grip - did you only replace the rears ? (or any at all yet?)

Since I moved to the UK and started driving in the wrong^H^H^H^H OTHER side of the road again, I have had the impression I cannot go quite as fast through roundabouts as I think I did in Denmark.

It may be me imagining things (many roundabouts here are off-camber, and quite narrow), - it could also be down to the weight-distribution with lefthand drive and righthand corners.

In any case, I think the front right wheel induces the understeer.

My dampers are original (afaik)  - so it might also help replacing them - which is on my shoppinglist.


So, to all of you Murena-owners living in RHD countries, next time you go abroad to a LHD country, go checkout some roundabouts and report back ! :-)

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
davidewanprice
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 11:45:28 pm »

Just out of interst, what PSI/BAR do you put in your tires?

The Matra club UK says to put 1.8BAR/26.1PSI in the front for a 2.2 and 2.4BAR/34.8PSI in the rears, ive got some 15" momo wheels, should i keep to these settings? ive been running 28PSI front, 30PSI rear and thats hard as hell.... Saying that my shockers seem hard as hell... Some of the roads in sheffield are simply third world.

Im using pirelli tires and my car feels well stuck, but i guess theres driving and dring.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2007, 06:47:26 am »

Just out of interst, what PSI/BAR do you put in your tires?

The Matra club UK says to put 1.8BAR/26.1PSI in the front for a 2.2 and 2.4BAR/34.8PSI in the rears, ive got some 15" momo wheels, should i keep to these settings? ive been running 28PSI front, 30PSI rear and thats hard as hell.... Saying that my shockers seem hard as hell... Some of the roads in sheffield are simply third world.

Im using pirelli tires and my car feels well stuck, but i guess theres driving and dring.

You should stick to the prescribed tyre pressures, even on other rims or tyres.

Krede... what tyres do you have?

You should not lack grip in the front unless you are (as mentioned below) running Firestones. I'm currently trying to find a set of Yokohamas since they will offer me the softest rubber on the market. Murenas really like soft rubber.

Even in very wet, running on four different tyres, my car handeled without serious understeer or locking up on wet roads, so it sounds like you have a problem on your car. Have you had tracking checked?

- Anders
(back from La France!)
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
krede
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 04:37:09 pm »

Lennart : So far I have only fitted the rear springs/dampers.
Currently I am running them at excatly half "stifness".. and frankly I cant tell much diference from the stock ones I replaced, so I will set the dampers to "KILL" next time I get the chance  Cheesy...see what that will be like..

As for the front end It isnt done yet.
I went for the "helper spring "option in the front , but still want to keep the torsionbars...
Though the guys at "GAZ" assured me that this setup was possible, my concern however is that these helper springs are acually rated pretty high and I suspect that they would be quite capable of sustaining the front end by themselves with no problems at all... thus my worry is   
that the front end will end up far too hard.
I will try messing around with it a bit to see how it is..
But first off I will set the front at equal hight in both sides by just adjustig the torsionbars        , however the nuts for this appear very tight so I might need to bring the murena to work and warm them up a bit so not to break anything  Wink...

Anders: To be honest the tyres on my car right now are far from new, so to blame the poor  "wet performance" on the brand wouldnt be fair  Smiley
But I have read good things about the bridgestone RE720s so Ill see if I can find a set to fit my slot mags Smiley
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 10:15:56 am »

But I have read good things about the bridgestone RE720s so Ill see if I can find a set to fit my slot mags Smiley

I noticed from the latest ADAC test that the Yokohama c.drive get very good grades in every aspect - except wear, which is PERFECT as it indicates SOFT rubber. And soft rubber is what you want if you want grip. Pattern has an influence too, but once the pattern has done its job getting the water clear of the rubber, it's the rubber that gives you the grip.

I haven't found a matching set in the right dimensions yet, though so it may be that I'll end up with s.drive on the front and c.drive on the rear.

Or..... I could fit a set of (road legal) racing tyres, this one does come in my sizes... I guess it would give you any grip you want... in the dry!
 


I still have my water problem unsorted though and lack of time prevents progress Sad

- Anders
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 10:31:26 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
krede
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 01:32:00 pm »

Quote
And soft rubber is what you want if you want grip.
This is true of cause.... but soft tires will wear more quickly and thus you will loose the performance sooner... and you know.. the time from you notice the lost grip and you actually GET the tires changed.. you will be no better of.. speaking from experience here   Grin
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 02:06:22 pm »

Quote
And soft rubber is what you want if you want grip.
This is true of cause.... but soft tires will wear more quickly and thus you will loose the performance sooner... and you know.. the time from you notice the lost grip and you actually GET the tires changed.. you will be no better of.. speaking from experience here   Grin

Good point... however with the mileage I'm going to do in my Murena I'm not seriously concerned about wear.
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 11:16:58 pm »

but soft tires will wear more quickly and thus you will loose the performance sooner.
In my experience, the Murena fronts last incredibly long. I have replaced several front tyres because of age rather than wear, so I wouldn't see any problem in fitting near-liquid rubber on the front :-)

The REARS however must be of more robust type. 

I don't see a problem in having different tyres front and rear, but I would advise against having tyres with too big performance difference in the wet.  The Yokohama C.Drive however sounds like a very safe and grippy choice.

I bought my car with Yoko A-008's on (in 1995), but the rears evaporated, and the fronts lasted for years, until they were hard as rock. Then I out P6000 on, and when the rears were shot, I replaced them with a new pair, and when THEY were done, the fronts were still less than half done. But due to their age, they went out of the window too.

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
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