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Author Topic: Under my 1.6 pt.2 : things that looked a bit suspicious to me  (Read 246 times)
Grapes
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« on: August 25, 2020, 11:18:12 pm »

So there where a few things that looked suspicious to me and I'd like to get a professional opinion about.
I've put my thoughts and questions on the images and I numbered them for the answers.
Hopefully the images aren't too large this time
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Grapes
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2020, 11:20:12 pm »

And some more images...
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Grapes
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2020, 11:21:10 pm »

And the final few images.
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murramor
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2020, 01:25:39 am »

Hi Grapes.  Just a hurried reply to you as I have to go away for a few days.  In general, your car looks fairly normal for a car that is over 30 years old and I wish my car had been as good as yours!  Number 8 shows a potential big problem with the trailing arms and I suggest that you get someone with Murena experience to give you advice after having a good look.  Some of the surface rust on other components does indeed look alarming but, in general they are substantial components and are far from rusting through.  You can have a lot of fun treating them with rust neutraliser and painting them and they will continue to last for years.  Give all the oily bits a good clean and observe any changes over time.

Some specifics...

1).  The clutch slave cylinder looks alarming on the outside but is probably OK as it is the inside that counts.  Treat with rust neutraliser and paint.  It is a cheap part and available so replace it if there is any hint of a problem with the clutch.
4). Front torsion bar adjustment - looks normal.
5). The water pipes are normally held in with rubber mounting blocks which have grooves to support 2 large pipes and 2 small pipes.  If these are present then the pipes need no further support.  There should definitely be nothing around the gear rod!

If nobody gets back to you while I am away, I can give you a more comprehensive answer in a few days.
regards
Ron
Sydney Australia
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Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
Oetker
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2020, 04:16:35 pm »

I think this car is in need of a bigger plan in restauration.

I will also pick a few things to answer.
Number 2.
No problem

4.
Adjustment of the torsion bars. looks to far out.

6.
normaly not in use.
There is also one at the backside of the starter.
There has to be a hooked support for the starter

12.
motormount. need a picture from a different angle (side)

Number 9.
Only 1 side of the arm has a rubber  like that....there is not a additinal rubber mounted there.

10
look very dry.
I think the trailingarms need  to go  for better inspection and replacement (pricey job)

17.
Differential oil seals leaking.
When the trailing arms are out a good job to do.

Several oil leaks that al have to be in the plan.

I can write a story about every picture you have here.
You have to be a bit handy and have a good place to do the jobs needed.
To give you a idea what you have , my 1.6 was just taken away before the breakers yard got it
That was in 2012 and I drive the car but also fix things  in between.
Bought for little money.

Here a topic about what I had to repair to make it reliable.
It's dutch, but looking pics is always the fun.
http://www.matramania.be/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2610



« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 04:21:13 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
roy4matra
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2020, 09:33:11 pm »

So there where a few things that looked suspicious to me and I'd like to get a professional opinion about.
I've put my thoughts and questions on the images and I numbered them for the answers.

Hopefully the images aren't too large this time

(Updated No.6 and I originally missed out No.21)

Well the images are still a bit too wide so I have to keeping moving sideways to read all the lines, but I suppose that might depend on you particular computer and monitor.  If you have one of these new 'huge' wide screen things, like many seem to have now, it might be OK but they are too wide for my system! Sad

Anyway on the the real topic... My personal view is that this car needs a thorough restoration as Herman has said and you will probably need two new trailing arms as there are signs not only of corrosion, but welded repairs that someone has attempted to hide with underseal!  And whilst the trailing arms are off to be replaced you need to remove the complete power unit (engine & transmission) so that all the other problems can be attended to, at the same time.  You need the trailing arms off to get the power unit out so this is the ideal time.

The clutch slave cylinder (No.1) is very corroded on the outside and whilst that may not be a problem if the inside is good, it shows the car has been somewhere very wet, and unused, for a long time.  If the car had been used the moisture would have been dried by the heat from the engine.  So it had to be laid up to cause that much rust, especially as it is mounted quite high, much higher than the 2.2 clutch slave cylinder.  And this is why there is so much corrosion on many other things, and I fear the trailing arms will not be good.  

No.2 shows someone has tried to hide the corrosion of this bracket with underseal.

No.3 show the box section and probably much of the underside has had a coating of underseal, which these should not have.  A galvanised steel is better left exposed and underseal when split like this can allow water to creep in between the underseal and galvanised steel and the damage it causes cannot be seen until it is much too late!

That box section has probably been used for lifting the car with a trolley jack and the saddle has taken the underseal off.  If you are going to use a trolley jack under the chassis box sections which is perfectly acceptable, then the saddle should have a rubber pad on it to protect the chassis.

No.4 shows one of the front torsion bar adjusters but the adjusting screw is almost off the thread with is definitely not right!  If the front ride height is correct, then the torsion bar must have been off and refitted on the wrong spline.  Needs further checks and probably work.

No.5 those heater coolant pipes should definitely NOT be attached to the gear change rod!!  They are supposed to be in the middle of the two radiator coolant pipes and the four fit in two special clamps.

No.6  Yes, correct.  An engine block normally has the two rubber mounts one on each side of the block, but the Murena is different so there are unused threaded holes on each side of the block.  I don't think the one in your photo is the one for the starter support bracket, but what Herman said is important.  The 1.6 Murena starter motor MUST have a support bracket at the rear, otherwise the clutch bell housing where the starter is bolted can break off owing to the weight and torque of the motor.

No.7 The rocker cover gasket is weeping.

No.8 & 10. This what I was saying about I think both trailing arms need replacing!  In No.10 it looks like a welded repair is being hidden by underseal.  The heat from the welding has caused the rubber in the flange to go like it has.

No.9  The two trailing arm bushes are slightly different.  One has no rubber faced flange either end, the other has only a flange at one end.

No. 11 12 & 13  This is the engine stabiliser rubber mount which the drive shaft passes through.

No.14 is the support bracket for the bearing for the long drive shaft.

No.15 is the external oil pump and oil filter.

No.16 & 20  The brake discs are not bad but is it the thickness that is important.  They are 11mm thick new and 9mm is worn out.  If they are near 9mm then they should be changed whilst the trailing arms are off.

No.17 & 18  The drive shaft seals look like they need replacing.

No.19  The oil leaks that are leaving the lower portions of the powertrain covered all need to be sorted and that is best tackled whilst the powertrain is out.

No.21 (sorry I missed this one!)  The water dripping from the rear bumper could just be rain water that is getting in somewhere, but also make sure it is plain water that is dripping out.  The overflow hose from the engine coolant header tank could be directing into here, so if the liquid dripping out is engine coolant, you may have a problem with coolant coming out of the overflow.

I hate to say this but for someone as inexperienced as you have indicated you are from this and other postings, with few tools, a lot of this work will be beyond you at least without someone experienced to help and guide you.  And it is going to be costly and take time.  Did you not think to get someone to check the car before you bought it?

Roy
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 08:26:29 am by roy4matra » Logged

Grapes
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2020, 10:51:28 pm »

Awesome input from everyone. This at least helps me plan the restoration a bit better.

Sorry for the massive picture size Roy. I admit I am one of those using a wide screen.

Few unexpected things and a few expected things here. All in all it does sound like a good idea to have a look at this with someone who knows these cars but until I find that person I'm glad I'm here on the forum. I did bring someone who knows a bit about cars when I bought this and we already suspected the oil leaks. The trailing arms are of course a common problem that I hoped a previous owner would have taken care of but I guess I'm out of luck there.

Apart from the trailing arms to me it sounds like the engine is going to be the biggest project... well actually it sounds like a bigger project than the trailing arms.

The engine doesn't run smooth and I suppose there's a chance there's more wrong with it than just the leaks though I can imagine these things can be linked.

This all leaves me wondering if there's something to say for an engine and transmission upgrade. I'm going to spend quite a bit on this in any case and the engine needs to come out as well so I guess that would already put me half way towards a swap. I'm all for originality if that makes it a better car but I got the feeling when reading about swaps in the 1.6 that it usually improves things rather than makes things worse.

Any thoughts on this?

For now I'm going to start cleaning the oil away, fixing the water pump, checking the discs and getting those pipes in their rightful place!
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Oetker
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2020, 01:22:48 am »

good start..
These engines are capable of driving 350.000 km without massive problems..
To test the condition of it measure compression on all 4 cilinders.
Mine is low 8.5 bar (revising a better engine at the moment)) but runs like a devil.
If compression is more or less ok check te vacume system.
These have often a leaking system and becaus of that the engine runs lean, or better, take the vacumehosses that goes to the barrel and front from the engine and temporary close the the pipes on the engine.
Most of the time that will do a lot if it's leaking.
Put new cap rotor and sparkplugs and replace the cables.
adjust valves.
New oil (I use semi synthetic 10W40 without leaks but opinions vary's on that).
If that is all OK you can try to clean the carbureter and put a new kit on.

Grtz Herman
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 05:01:07 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Grapes
Jr. Member
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Posts: 35


« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2020, 03:38:49 am »

Ah mine should only have done about 100k so I guess I won't have to worry about switching it. Just some maintenance. I found someone who can hopefully help me with that although I'm not sure if he is able to help me get it out. Will update here when I make some progress!
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Gib
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2020, 11:33:08 am »

Vac pipes by creativeq, on Flickr

Surely Yellow is the vac pipes and  red is the coolant pipes , either way Red needs to be unclipped from the gear link and attached to the coolant pipes as mentioned
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Grapes
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Posts: 35


« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2020, 11:46:14 am »

That was my initial idea as well but I'm worried that the heat will damage the pipe or melt the tie wrap.
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