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Author Topic: Front Green Stuff brake pads too thick?  (Read 17947 times)
macaroni
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Murena and Multipla - I like it 3 abreast!


« on: May 19, 2008, 12:18:34 pm »

I ordered a set of greenstuff brake pads, DP2317, and they are too thick for the caliper to slide over.
Blaming the pads, I tried a spare set of other make pads, I inherited with the car, and they were too thick also, albeit to a slightly lesser extent.

Filing the inside of the caliper helped a little, but not so I can use them.

Has anyone else had this problem?
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2008, 02:58:21 pm »

I have the same pads on mine fitted last year without problems AFAIK. I didn't do them myself, however, as I had a garage do the bearings, discs, and the ball joints at the same time, but I don't think they had any problems fitting the pads. They complained about the joints, though - 25 years of rust kept the parts well together Cheesy

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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
macaroni
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 06:34:05 pm »

I have a plan, to fit one of the new pads, on the piston side, and drive it around for a while in the hope that when it wears down enough I can fit the other new one to the other side of the disk.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 07:29:04 pm »

I have a plan, to fit one of the new pads, on the piston side, and drive it around for a while in the hope that when it wears down enough I can fit the other new one to the other side of the disk.

That sounds a bit like the wrong solution. It's probably just the piston that is stuck in the cylinder so it can't be pushed back enough to fit the new pads.

Have you tried giving Roy a call/e-mail?

- Anders
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 07:44:04 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
davidewanprice
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 07:44:53 pm »

My idea would be to put one new in one side and an old in the other, put it together and pump the brakes, then remove the old pad try to fit the second new pad, might work?
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lewisman
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2008, 07:48:29 pm »

Are you sure that you have the correct front discs fitted?  Later Alpine/Solara discs will fit but they are thicker.
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lewisman
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2008, 07:50:54 pm »

My idea would be to put one new in one side and an old in the other, put it together and pump the brakes, then remove the old pad try to fit the second new pad, might work?

That wouldn't make any difference as the piston would have to be far enough in to allow you to fit the pads in the first place and pumping the brake pedal would only push the piston back out.
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macaroni
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2008, 11:01:41 pm »

Are you sure that you have the correct front discs fitted?  Later Alpine/Solara discs will fit but they are thicker.

I had thought of this, but have no way of finding out. I guess that is the real problem. £66 from MM for a pair of Murena front discs, wasn't an expense I was planning on!

The piston is fully home, it is the body of the caliper that is fouling the pad.
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lewisman
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2008, 11:11:50 pm »

I don't suppose you still  have the part number?  The other alternative would be to get a micrometer or a decent vernier caliper.  I bought my digital vernier in Lidl in Spain (they had them here too) for less than a tenner.

Unfortunately you have to split the bearings to take the disks off.  Do any of your local garages skim discs without taking them off the hubs?  Older Renaults and Mitsubishis were the same and both dealers used to use this type of equipment.
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macaroni
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2008, 08:24:28 am »

I don't suppose you still  have the part number?  The other alternative would be to get a micrometer or a decent vernier caliper.  I bought my digital vernier in Lidl in Spain (they had them here too) for less than a tenner.

Unfortunately you have to split the bearings to take the disks off.  Do any of your local garages skim discs without taking them off the hubs?  Older Renaults and Mitsubishis were the same and both dealers used to use this type of equipment.

I have a local factor that skims disks, but off the car. I didn't realise you had to split the hubs. Screw that then, I'm going to fit one new pad at a time and fit the other when the first one has gone down a bit. Hopefully, with the harder pads, the disk might wear a bit thinner!
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2008, 08:32:46 am »

I have a local factor that skims disks, but off the car. I didn't realise you had to split the hubs. Screw that then, I'm going to fit one new pad at a time and fit the other when the first one has gone down a bit. Hopefully, with the harder pads, the disk might wear a bit thinner!

Probably not, as the green stuff pads are known to be less wearing on the discs than other pads. Part of the pad surface is spread over the disc adding a slight bit of extra friction to the combination and less wear of the disc. This is a well known technique in racing pads and I assume EBC does a bit of the same with the greenstuff's. Downside, I think, is that the first braking is a bit on the weak side - that's my experience, at least, but they come on quickly. Fast driving makes them even better, though Cheesy

Perhaps EBC can supply thinner pads?
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
macaroni
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Murena and Multipla - I like it 3 abreast!


« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2008, 12:39:32 pm »

I agree Anders, when cold they are a bit weak but they do stand up well to hard driving.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2008, 08:07:56 pm »

I ordered a set of greenstuff brake pads, DP2317, and they are too thick for the caliper to slide over.
Blaming the pads, I tried a spare set of other make pads, I inherited with the car, and they were too thick also, albeit to a slightly lesser extent...

If you cannot fit the DP2317 pads then there is something wrong with your car.  The discs should be 11mm thick when new (as per my brake booklet and website) and these EBC pads are the same thickness as the original Ferodo ones.  So either your discs are too thick and therefore not original, or the caliper is not original and too narrow.  I have done many Murena brake overhauls and never had this problem with any of them.

You should not be running one pad one side and a different pad the other.  The friction will be different and the heat transfer could distort the discs.  The wear rate would be such that it would take a long time before they will be worn enough to fit.  Playing with brakes like this is not good practice at all.

You should check the disc thickness first, and if thicker and the caliper is original, you can work out what the pad thickness needs to be on your car.  If you do not wish to change the discs, then you need to get some slimmer pads.  For instance, Lancia used to use a thinner version of the rear pads we use, so the Murena rears (FDB106) are 15mm whilst the Lancia used FDB114 which were only 12mm thick (from memory).  If you contact Ferodo and tell them you need a slimmer version of FBD235 (also 15mm thick from memory) they will tell you if there is one available.

Roy

P.S. The latest boxes of these EBC pads are now coming with stick-on strips.  DO NOT FIT THESE.  The Murena has never had them or needed them, and I don't know why they have suddenly started supplying them in the kit.  The same will apply to the rear.  If they come in the latest kits, DO NOT FIT THEM.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 08:12:36 am by roy4matra » Logged

Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2008, 08:56:25 am »

P.S. The latest boxes of these EBC pads are now coming with stick-on strips.  DO NOT FIT THESE.  The Murena has never had them or needed them, and I don't know why they have suddenly started supplying them in the kit.  The same will apply to the rear.  If they come in the latest kits, DO NOT FIT THEM.

These are anti-squeal pads, and while I agree with you about the Murena (and there may not even be any space for them?), they are necessary on the Espace, where squealing is annoying. It's a different car.
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
roy4matra
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2008, 08:11:00 pm »

P.S. The latest boxes of these EBC pads are now coming with stick-on strips.  DO NOT FIT THESE.  The Murena has never had them or needed them, and I don't know why they have suddenly started supplying them in the kit.  The same will apply to the rear.  If they come in the latest kits, DO NOT FIT THEM.

These are anti-squeal pads, and while I agree with you about the Murena (and there may not even be any space for them?), they are necessary on the Espace, where squealing is annoying. It's a different car.

Precisely, that is a different car.  I was talking only of the Murena only.

Strictly these stick-on strips are just sound dampers.  They do not stop squealing, they simply attempt to deaden it.  Squealing is caused by air vibration due to the pads on the uneven surface of the discs.  It happens now on many cars owing to the varying hardness of the non-asbestos pads wearing the discs unevenly, scoring and wearing the discs away.  Some cars are worse than others, owing to their designs, and for instance Megane II has been a big problem, never really cured.  It is because the non-asbestos pads wear the discs so much (compared to asbestos pads) that you generally need to change the discs every two sets of pads.  When we had asbestos pads, we hardly had to change the discs at all over many years except where they rusted owing to lack of use.

Whilst they claim asbestos is a health hazard, so is the much greater volume of dust produced by the non-asbestos pads, which is far worse.  You only have to see the black front wheels on all modern cars, and work on vehicles a great deal to understand the problems.  And it is not just brakes, but clutches which have the same material changes and often worse wear rates.  I became sick of truck clutch changes and getting covered in the stuff to finally decide to give up working on trucks, since the change to non-asbestos material.

As EBC pads are supposed to be better, reducing disc wear, squealing should be reduced or eliminated provided the discs are flat to start with.  Ideally if you fit new discs at the same time as changing to EBC kevlar pads there should be no further squealing.

The latest EBC pads have a bedding in surface (the red layer) which is designed to 'wear the discs flat' so as to bed the pads to the disc more quickly, they may help reduce noise on old discs too, but I haven't had any experience of these latest pads yet to know their effect.

Roy
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