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Author Topic: 2.2dCi crankshaft pulley failure  (Read 17716 times)
Martin Tyas
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Espace, because it's worth it!


« on: June 01, 2008, 10:53:56 am »

12 months of trouble free Espacing came to an end on Friday evening with a 65km recovery truck ride home.... I suppose I saved on using my own diesel at about £1.26 (Euro 1.61) a litre here in the UK now but could have done without the 2 hour delay and the hassle.

The vehicle had been parked in the sun for 3 hours and was very hot inside so after starting the engine I set the climate control to LOW to get some cold air through as fast as possible.
After moving off I noticed a light trail of white/grey smoke, then lost power steering followed quickly afterwards by the charge circuit warning light and then the STOP warning.

Before I got pulled over it sounded like quite a number of the internal engine components were making a very determined effort to escape so I started to fear the worse even though both belts had been changed with genuine parts and by a Renault dealer 14,000 miles previously.
Although from the symptoms, having lost power assistance to the steering as well as the alternator warning having come on, I expected to find the auxilliary belt shredded despite it also having been replaced at the same time as the cam belt... but to my surprise the belt was also intact and tight.

The following morning after summoning up the courage to look at what could have happened I noticed something wedged between the bodywork and the washer bottle.... it was a piece of rubber... and then I found more having dropped the engine under tray, so suspected a pulley failure.

After removing the right hand road wheel and the inner wheel arch plastic panel, at first glance everything seemed normal but upon closer examination I found that the crankshaft pulley, which is behind a larger diameter outer flange, was loose. The rubber damping ring between the centre hub and the outer pulley had broken up.

I guess that even if it had already been starting to deteriorate then the additional load of the maxxed out air-con compressor was enough to finally make it disintegrate.

I'll post some pictures some time over the next few days in case anyone is interested.

Martin
« Last Edit: June 01, 2008, 02:53:22 pm by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Martin Tyas
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 271


Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 06:34:44 pm »

I got a replacement pulley ordered today and it's in stock at Renault UK so my Espace should be running again on Wednesday.

Although I hadn't heard of the crankshaft pulley being a particular problem on the 2.2dCi and didn't find any reference to it on the forum it certainly appears as though they'd had more than a few problems with it over the years as the current part number is the 7th in a line of superceded part numbers  Shocked

Martin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2008, 08:03:33 pm »

its almost rude not to reply to your post, and offer ones condolences - you do seem to be hard hit.

It does sound quite ugly, with potential big consequences. Good you stopped in time, and even if the recovery took its time, it made it possible to actually recover the engine.

You have my sympathy and I'll keep my fingers crossed for your cars swift recovery.

/Lennart
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 11:49:48 pm by Lennart Sorth » Logged

Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
ross
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2008, 08:14:46 pm »

Hi Martin,

I read with interest your account of the crankshaft pulley wheel failure, and it reminded me of several accounts of similar failures on the modern crop of Ford cars.
If as I suspect Renault have adopted the same design as Ford for thier pulley wheels it will be a recurring problem.
The articles I have read in Forums in Car magazines have highlighted this problem, and indeed my next door neighbour has had both the cranshaft pulley and his flywheel replaced on his diesel Focus due to the same problem.
One of the writers in a Forum suggested returning the pulley wheel and the flywheel to the previous solid metal design, which as far as I can tell is not impossible to do and will never need replacing.
My Espace 2.2Dti does not have the rubber mounted pulley wheel, and I would suggest you make enquiries to see if the pulley wheel from my type of engine will fit your Dci.
Just another example of a more modern phase of car taking a step backwards in reliability.
regards
Ross
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1994 2.1Td Espace
2005 Kangoo 1.2
1977 Renault 16TL
1974 Renault 16TX
Martin Tyas
Sr. Member
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Posts: 271


Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 07:01:05 pm »

I appreciate the sentiments Lennart.
It doesn't however appear to be quite as ugly as the noises suggested.
The accessories/crankshaft pulley vibration dampening ring had completely disintegrated and as I turned it what was left of the rubber was coming out as dust. Once that failed it was metal to metal of the inner hub to the outer pulley and that's what generated the terrible noise... and I guess transmitted right through the engine as it's on the end of the crankshaft and so sounded much worse than it actually was.

I haven't been able to post any pictures as yet because I haven't managed to get the old pulley off  Sad .... it's secured with a Torx head bolt and my set only went up to E16 and the one I needed was E18 (how they get the sizing regime is beyond me because it's actually 16.67mm across the points of the star  Huh). But having got a socket to suit I've taken my torque wrench setting up to 140Nm and it still hasn't moved but I gave in before I did any damage to the flywheel or crankcase as I'd had to wedge the flywheel to prevent it rotating. I spent all morning trying to locate a suitable flywheel locking tool and couldn't find one within 150km of home and yet can get one off e-Bay for next day delivery  Roll Eyes
I've ordered a new bolt from Renault just in case I need to take the gas axe or angle grinder to the old one.

But although the problem with the engine doesn't appear to be such a major issue, whilst under the car I did notice another problem..... the flexi section of then Eberspacher coolant heater exhaust pipe had cracked through in two places... and it's well over £200 from Renault... but I'll cover that in a separate topic

I know what you mean about supposed progress with vehicle design Ross.... the constant quest for materials & manufacturing cost reductions plus improvements in performance, fuel ecomony and emmissions appears to be greatly reducing reliability and longevity (especially of diesels) whilst at the same time driving up costs of repairs and ownership. It seems like motor manufacturers are going the way of white goods and electrical equipment manufacturers and aim to have you throwing them away after 5 years. I know it's no consolation but Renault are not alone. Interestingly whilst looking for a flywheel locking tool I noticed that Euro Car Parts and GSF (German, Swedish & French) both have a crankshaft pulley for the HDI engines fitted to Peugeot and Citroen in their top 20 best selling items!!

Martin
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 07:33:08 pm by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 09:32:39 pm »

I appreciate the sentiments Lennart.
But having got a socket to suit I've taken my torque wrench setting up to 140Nm and it still hasn't moved but I gave in before I did any damage to the flywheel or crankcase as I'd had to wedge the flywheel to prevent it rotating.

I've had to remove a crankshaft pulley only a couple of times, but the only reliable way I know of is to use a large hammer to punch it free by hitting the wrench handle. The bolt may be glued in, in which case it sits very tight. I leave the crankshaft unlocked and out of gear so nothing will get damaged by the beating!

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Martin Tyas
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Posts: 271


Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 11:00:32 am »

so nothing will get damaged by the beating!

Now why did that comment conjure up a picture in my mind of you doing a John Cleese with the tree branch Anders?  Grin

But I know what you mean and have done exactly the same before... using shock tactics is sometimes the only solution for removal.  But then you are still left with the problem of getting the correct torque setting when refitting it unless you lock the flywheel / crankshaft.... or unless of course you use the "rule of the hammer".... if it's big and heavy enough to undo it then it's big and heavy enough to put it back on  Wink
But also the bolt has a Torx head which are fine for manufacturers to more quickly and easily assemble vehicle components once but are even worse at taking punishment than regular hexagon head bolts. So I didn't want to give it a beating without having a replacement bolt to hand just in case the star head rounded off, as they so easily do, and I needed to take a gas axe or angle grinder to cut it off and extract the remainder of the bolt once the pulley was out of the way.
Just received a call from the Renault dealer to advise that replacement bolt has arrived so hopefully I'll be back on the road one way or another this weekend  Grin

Martin
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 11:12:07 am by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 11:11:17 am »

Martin, I have no idea how your brain is wired, but is this what you saw???! Grin Grin Grin



http://tviv.org/Image:Fawlty-Towers-Gourmet-Night.jpg
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 11:19:21 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Martin Tyas
Sr. Member
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Posts: 271


Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 11:32:18 am »

Yes Anders... that is exactly the image I got in my mind  Grin.

Maybe you are right about the wiring in my head Anders.... it must be those 6 platinum coils they put in my brain 3 years ago to plug the haemorrhage.
But you've got to admit that they work just fine.... I do get great pictures appearing, just like that one... and all with only an internal antenna  Wink Grin

Martin
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 12:07:09 pm by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 12:04:20 pm »

It must be those 6 platinum coils they put in my brain 3 years ago to plug the haemorrhage.
But you've got to admit that they work just fine.... I do get great pictures appearing just like that one... and all with only an internal antenna  Wink Grin

Haha, your sense of humor is excellent, Martin Grin
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Martin Tyas
Sr. Member
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Posts: 271


Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 06:11:48 pm »

Well, one has to look on the positive side Anders.
Firstly, I'm still here to be able to have a joke and a laugh
and
Secondly, I am currently appreciating in value..... with the worldwide shortages of metals, hopefully by the time I'm ready to turn my toes skywards I will be able to fund my own funeral with the 6 platinum coils in my head and 4 gold caps on my teeth if her indoors or the kids get me weighed in at the metal recyclers  Wink Cheesy Grin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2008, 08:06:15 pm »


"alwais look on the braaaajt sajd of lajf"!

Life has given me so much good and bad, and to appreciate the good in the middle of all the troubles is not always easy! I'm afraid I'm getting OT now, but if I just counted the good things I been forced to give up, lost a mother and a bit more of family, and now finds myself living with three kids challenged with ADHD and similar diagnosis (out of four!), I feel I know what "suffering" is about. But I'm happy! and next week, two of my ADHD-handicapped lads and their slightly 'funny' father Wink will pull several days off the calendar to go enjoy the worlds' biggest motorsport event: Le Mans 24h Cheesy
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Martin Tyas
Sr. Member
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Posts: 271


Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 12:21:27 pm »

I know something of what you are going through with the kids Anders as my wife provides teaching support for such special children at our local school and we've had some of our own issues to handle with our two.

The first was premature, very low birth weight and had very irregular breathing.... which at the time were all indicators of the potential for cot death syndrome and so for the first year he was on a breathing monitor so that we would know when he just forgot to breath. For a kid with breathing problems he went on to play one of the biggest instruments there is... a Tuba. Last year he got a Masters in Astro Physics and is continuing research towards a PhD. He's also rowing for Durham University at senior level along side a number of European champions and Team GB members.

The second one had the attention span of a goldfish and for the first few years at school seemed about as bright as a glow worms armpit. It was eventually discovered that he'd had hearing deficiencies, so didn't hear enough to participate and so went off into a world of his own. But for a kid who started life with hearing problems after getting it sorted he went on to play Trombone and had played all over the UK, in France and Germany and also in New York all before he was 18 and is now in the first year of a 4 year degree course in music.  And at only 19 years old he played last week with a big band at a £10,000 a ticket charity event sharing the billing with Stevie Wonder.

So Anders, it may help to know that with the right support from the professionals as well as in the home environment these adaptable and resilient little creatures known as children can, and do, overcome adversity and will in any case make you proud of their, and your own, achievements each and every little step of the way..... even though there are times when you feel like unscrewing their little heads from their bodies  Wink

Have a great time in Le Mans

The next post will get back on topic.... promise

Martin
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 10:35:16 am by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Martin Tyas
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 271


Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2008, 12:36:11 pm »

I've attached a photo of the offending pulley showing how the rubber vibration dampening ring had disintegrated.
The horrible noises were coming from the pulley going metal to metal with the centre hub once the rubber had failed.

I needed to lock out the flywheel in order to remove the pulley retaining bolt which eventually yielded to my biceps at 150Nm. As you can see from the photo the bolt is plated so there was no corrosion to keep it from being removed.

So I am happily Espacing again.... just waiting for the stainless steel flexi pipe and clamps to arrive so that I can repair the coolant heater exhaust.

Martin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2008, 02:48:57 pm »

Have a great time in Le Mans

Thanks, Martin, for your compassionate response! I'm deeply touched. You are a very proud father Smiley I'm sure we will have a GREAT time Cheesy

Thanks for sharing the photos of the pulley. I can really imagine how horrible it must have sounded!

The next post will get back on topic.... promise

Martin
[/quote]
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
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