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Author Topic: Bodywork Repairs  (Read 7812 times)
murramor
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« on: September 09, 2008, 02:55:15 am »

I have small tears and chips in in all four wing panels.  I think the previous owner must have used a 'sonic' parking technique and only stopped when he heard the 'crunch'.  Smiley

I have 2 questions...

From what I read on the web, epoxy resin sticks better than polyester although it is more expensive. So I am guessing that it may be stronger for small repairs around the lips of the wheelarches.  What is the group consensus on which resin to use?

If I remove the rear wings does the glass have to come come out of the small rear windows?  Presumably the adhesive is mainly at the area near the top of the panels and around the windows.  Is it hard to get the panel unstuck once all the rivets are out?
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Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 09:05:12 am »

It is very difficult to remove the rear wings, so if the tears are only around the wheel arches, I would definitely leave them on. The front's are easy, as they are only riveted on.

I don't know anything about resin types, so someone else will have to give you advice on that Wink

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
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murramor
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 10:59:04 am »

It is very difficult to remove the rear wings, so if the tears are only around the wheel arches, I would definitely leave them on.
- Anders

I have rust in the chassis above the trailing arms and I would like to see the extent of the damage properly if I can.  The rust that I can see could be repaired without removing the wings and sills but it would be easier if I could.  I remember how hard it was to remove some panels from my Bagheera so I believe you when you say it is going to be difficult!  If I have to give it a go, will I have to remove the side window glass?

Probably, in Europe, my car would be scrapped and used as a spares car (the car you broke for spares recently looked to be in much better condition than mine).  Luckily it is here and so it will be saved even if the cost of doing so will far exceed its value in Europe.  There are about 20 million people in this country who have never seen, let alone heard of, a Murena so that alone makes it worth saving.
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Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
roy4matra
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 11:43:52 am »

... If I have to give it a go, will I have to remove the side window glass?

Yes you should remove them.  You will probably find that the metal lip just below them is also rusted and will need attention.  You will need to use a blade between the body and chassis around the tailgate opening to break the mastic seal.

I have not done this job but I know someone that did.

Roy
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2008, 12:37:43 pm »

... If I have to give it a go, will I have to remove the side window glass?
You will probably find that the metal lip just below them is also rusted and will need attention.  You will need to use a blade between the body and chassis around the tailgate opening to break the mastic seal.

I agree - mine has rust exactly there. I have had a repair done now from within the wheel arch. It was NOT easy (thanks moes!), and we have not even attended to the rust in the lip under the windows, or in the engine room, which I will need to do something about at some point.

I appreciate your reasons to restore your car, Ron - you are doing it the right way.

- Anders
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krede
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 07:46:49 pm »

The panels are BLOODY hard to remove intact..
They were never meant to be removed.. Proof?? Matra made a fibre glass repair piece to repair the wing while it is still on the car!.

Hans and I spend a couple of hours trying to remove a rear wing from Waldo's spare parts car... In the end I gave up..
It CAN be done (Hans has removed the wings from his Bagheera),but
chances are that you will end up cracking the fibre at some point.

The best way to go about it, is by carefully heating the edge that has been glued, and then, like Roy said, cut along it with a thin blade.
The key word here is PATIENCE!!, taking the time, and having a nice place to do the work.. preferably somewhere indoors... with a radio.. and access to plenty of cold beer... (mind your fingers though)  Grin
 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 07:50:40 pm by krede » Logged
murramor
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 10:11:11 am »

Thanks Krede - good to hear from somebody who has actually tried and failed.  I think I will avoid the experience unless absolutely necessary.

Anybody have any idea as to the best resin to use for repairs to the panels?
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Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
suffolkpete
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2008, 10:45:24 am »

Don't know whether this helps or not, but Practical Classics magazine did a complete rebuild of a Bagheera a couple of years or so ago, in which all the panels were removed and resprayed off the car.  I believe the magazine is available in Australia, so you may be able to get hold of the back issues.  Perhaps someone on these forums has a copy they could scan and send.  I would but I gave all my back issues away to make room in the garage for the vanload of spares that came with my car.  In the photographic history that came with my car, there is a picture of it with the offside rear wing removed, so it must be possible.
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murramor
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2008, 02:33:27 pm »

  I believe the magazine is available in Australia, so you may be able to get hold of the back issues. 

Thanks.  We do get Practical Classics here.  I will keep an eye out for the issues with the Matra in it on eBay.  I will also see if the magazine has a back issues section. It will be really interesting to see the Bagheera restoration.
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Ron Murrell
Sydney, Australia
suffolkpete
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2008, 08:24:09 pm »

I've had a search round and found a few back issues.  The series consisted of twelve articles starting in April 2005, but is pretty unhelpful on the subject of taking it apart, it simply says that they prised the panels off until the glue let go, no mention of applying heat, although that sounds like a good idea to me.  Another point , which may be of interest to Titus, was that the panel repairs and painting were done by a firm called Option 1 of Bromsgrove, Worcs, at a cost of £2500, although that was with the panels off the car.  Don't know what sort of a job they made of it, but the car is now owned by a MECUK member, so someone must be familiar with it.  May have been a special price, of course, in return for publicity.
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lewisman
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 09:15:14 pm »

I took the rear wings of both of the Bagheeras that I owned.  One for welding purposes and one when it was being broken for spares Sad

It wasn't difficult on a Bagheera but the murena looks a bit different....  It looks like I will need to do a bit of welding at the back but so far I am hoping that it will just be the end of the sills that require work.  If I end up taking the rear wings off I will get the camera out.
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RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2008, 09:46:08 pm »

If you people can hold om a bit, I will try to see it Ulf from Norway has anything about it. He has (completly) stripped his white Murena (the V6). Willl return when I have some news on the matter...

http://home.online.no/~utinglum/matramurena.cfm

http://home.online.no/~utinglum/murenav6_08.cfm

« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 09:49:59 pm by RazorbackNOR » Logged

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Bagheera Lars
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2008, 10:16:54 am »

I dont think you can compare the removing of fibreglass parts from a Bagheera, and then on a Murena. It is well-known that Bagheera chassis rusts. After some years the rusty frames lets go of the glue, and you can usually take it apart without any problems. I have done that to a couple of Bagheeras. But taking a look at the Murena, and seeing how all sealings are still intact, I do believe that it is close to impossible to take it of without cracking some of it. (Believe it or not. The rusty Bagheera chassis actually has a possitive side right here Grin)

Lars
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M 530 LX 1972, Bagheera 1 S 1976, Rancho 1978
lewisman
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« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2008, 10:39:08 pm »

I did my Bagheeras in 1986 and 88 and one was a '78 and the other was a '79 (it was bought for spares as it was already getting rusty underneath and around the screen Sad (If I had it now in that condition I would be restoring it but it was different times). 

However, the areas where the wings were attached were not rusty and the sealant was still sticky. 

I think the problem with the murena is that the design is different, however I will let you know if I manage to remove mine....
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bist
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2008, 02:29:27 pm »

Yes you are right,epoxy does stick better and its stiffer to. The good thing about polyester is that is cheap, but has tendency to dry up and absorb for a few reasons (shrinkage) and works only with glass fiber.
Its more evident on bigger areas, and for small cracks it is much important to use good and adequate fiber.
Some hints,  use twill fiber, glass or carbon, of less g/m2 applying few layers on both sides of crack.
The biggest problem is air which get traped inside, so got to be careful.
Have you worked with resins, do you need procedure info
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 02:32:18 pm by bist » Logged
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