Murena 2.2: Accessing the bolt under the distributor

[Anders Dinsen]

The retaining bolt for the distributor on the Murena 2.2 is fitted under the distributor. It seems to be inaccessible - or at least, I haven't found out how to access it.

I have not needed to adjust advance until now when I'm going to play with initial advance as part of my carb project. The bolt is an 11 mm head, and I've got a very short key that matches it, but even with that, I just can't get at it. It just keeps getting jammed between coolant hoses and pipes. Access from the side is impossible due to the coolant pipe on one side, and the thermostat housing on the other.

Am I missing something

Thanks and regards

- Anders

[RazorbackNOR]

Have you tried to read the manuel Anders....?   I think I remember something about the ditributor round page Da2/Da3. then again, my french suck so I have no idea what the chapter was about... 

And do remember to put the rotor back on.... 

[Anders Dinsen]

Have you tried to read the manuel Anders....?

No, but I have now. Murena manual contains nothing specific about this in the 2.2 supplements. Tagora manual does not describe the procedure in detail, but the Tagora is different with the engine fitted longitudally and the side of the distrubutor facing the radiator. There's a nice gap between the dizzy and the rad, so it's quite obvious what to do.

So I don't feel the manual helps.

And do remember to put the rotor back on.... 

I will

- Anders

[macaroni]

I've adjusted my timing by using an open-ended 13mm spanner, I think. It wasn't very difficult.

[Anders Dinsen]

I've adjusted my timing by using an open-ended 13mm spanner, I think. It wasn't very difficult.

13 mm... someone must have cut the thread on yours up to M8 instead of the standard M7 which have 11 mm heads.

It's probably just the 'flu messing it up in my head: I've just had another look, and even got my son out to help...



we can't work it out!

[macaroni]

Maybe it was 11mm, but either way it wasn't difficult. He should be able to sort it out for you.

[Matra_Hans]

Hi
I have hade a special ring spanner for adjusting the ignition. The spanner is shortened, the ring has been grinded flat and it has a string attached to it which I take around my wrist in order to avoid dropping the spanner down into the engine compartment.
However the spanenr is a 14 mm spanner! (and the size is correct for the normal 2.2 and for the turbo version)

Hans

[Oetker]

Quote
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I've adjusted my timing by using an open-ended 13mm spanner, I think. It wasn't very difficult.
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Same here, I am not sure about the size.
It takes a bit of fidling with the spanner, but it should go with it.

[krede]

CHILD LABOUR!! .. Anders... SHAME ON YOU!! 

[Anders Dinsen]

CHILD LABOUR!! .. Anders... SHAME ON YOU!! 

LOL!

He's very eager, and has been since he was quite small. When we were done, I tried to get him out of the car by telling him about the kookies we had: "No, I wanna repair daddys car!"

I have come to the conclusion, that the angled extension on the thermostat housing makes it more difficult to access the bolt on my car than on the average Murena. The fact that Tony can do it easily is probably because his thermostat extension is straight (in the horisontal plane) to match his straight (Politecnic made) manifold he has. I'm just guessing, but I just checked again today, and it cant be done without special tools. Of which I'll invent one now!

[phil75]

 

[Anders Dinsen]

 

YES, that's exactly what I need!

[roy4matra]

The retaining bolt for the distributor on the Murena 2.2 is fitted under the distributor. It seems to be inaccessible - or at least, I haven't found out how to access it.

I have not needed to adjust advance until now when I'm going to play with initial advance as part of my carb project. The bolt is an 11 mm head...

First, the bolt head is not 11mm across flats, it is 14mm.  If it is not, it has been changed.  It was certainly 14mm when I had the car Anders.

Second, I have answered this one before on this forum somewhere I'm sure.
Anyway, the easiest way is with a 4-way high angle spanner.  This is a short open-ended spanner with the openings at higher angles than normal to the main body of the spanner.  Normally they are 15 degrees.  The high angle spanner has them at 30 degrees one end and 60 degrees the other.  By turning the spanner over you get a choice of four positions.

I have had two of these spanners in my tool kit for years for specific jobs.  A half inch one for older English vehicles when we were still using UNF/UNC sizes; and a 14mm one for certain metric jobs including the Murena distributor bolt.  Mine are Snap-on but there are others.

The other option is to make one up purposely for the job.  You cannot get a normal ring spanner in there, but you could grind one down just enough to slip in, and then bend the body of the spanner up to clear the surroundings.

It's not easy to get in there but normally you only have to set it up once, and if you then carefully mark the flange as well (so you can see if it has moved or to align it if the distributor has been out) it makes things easy for the future.

Roy

[Anders Dinsen]

First, the bolt head is not 11mm across flats, it is 14mm.  If it is not, it has been changed.  It was certainly 14mm when I had the car Anders.

Thanks, then it's still 14 mm, as I haven't touched it before. The reason I thought it was 11 is that I have a spare cam sprocket cover, which I got with some parts off ebay some time ago, and the bolt on that is an M7 with 11 mm head. Obviously it has been changed.

Second, I have answered this one before on this forum somewhere I'm sure.

Now that I think about it, I think you have explained it to me in a private e-mail earlier on. I'm afraid I didn't check my archive before posting.

Anyway, the easiest way is with a 4-way high angle spanner.  This is a short open-ended spanner with the openings at higher angles than normal to the main body of the spanner.  Normally they are 15 degrees.  The high angle spanner has them at 30 degrees one end and 60 degrees the other.  By turning the spanner over you get a choice of four positions.

I have had two of these spanners in my tool kit for years for specific jobs.  A half inch one for older English vehicles when we were still using UNF/UNC sizes; and a 14mm one for certain metric jobs including the Murena distributor bolt.  Mine are Snap-on but there are others.

That sounds like a good tool to have.

The other option is to make one up purposely for the job.  You cannot get a normal ring spanner in there, but you could grind one down just enough to slip in, and then bend the body of the spanner up to clear the surroundings.

I have a habit of saving the tools that come with IKEA furniture, bikes and the like, so I've got a few pieces of metal in my workshop that I think I can make something out of. One of them in particular, looks promising. If not, the ground down ring spanner sounds like a good solution.

It's not easy to get in there but normally you only have to set it up once, and if you then carefully mark the flange as well (so you can see if it has moved or to align it if the distributor has been out) it makes things easy for the future.

Mine (as you have suggested earlier) has several markings. I took a photo a few days ago to make sure I could align it back correctly:
http://gallery.dinsen.net/v/biler/Murena/technical/dizzy/DSC_1397.JPG.html

I agree, that advance is best left at 10 degrees, and as long as the distributor is fitted correctly, there isn't any need to play with this. I'm just saying this so people don't rush out trying all different static advance settings. I, however, need to try advancing the initial advance beyond the 10 degrees to see if it improves the progression stage on my new carburettors. Most books recommend this as a part of the tuning procedure. Turning iniital advance may also require reducing the max advance on the distributor to avoid pinking, so it has to be done carefully.

These carbs are much more sensitive to ignition advance than the single progressive Solex or Webers. As anyone reading my blog on the conversion project will have realised by now, I have asked for trouble by fitting them - but that's the way I want it

[Megatech]

The access to engine bay in front of the engine is almost impossible on the S versions  - and other double carbs setup.

My best advise when adjusting the belt tension - og other similar jobs - is to lower the gearbox as described in the repair manual when changing water pump.

I takes another hour but with less cursing.