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Author Topic: Sorry to the purists! Murena 2.0 !!  (Read 23642 times)
phil75
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2009, 04:44:48 pm »

Please full of pictures of this assembly
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- Philippe -
Matra Murena 2.2 1983 engine 20000 km
Yamaha R1 2004  9000 km (engine)
VW Golf II 1.8 1990 209000 km
Rover 111 1994 155000 km
roy4matra
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2009, 09:56:17 am »

Personally, I'd go for originality.  If I wanted modern sports car performance, I'd buy a modern sports car.  That said, it's much better to fit a non-original engine than see a car go off the road.  I'm intrigued as to why you chose the Ford, rather than go down the more well trodden path of the 1.9 Peugeot.  It would have given you almost as much power and probably weighs less.

One reason is that changing a 1.6 Murena to a 1.9 is fairly easy but owing to the 2.2 chassis being different, more work is involved modifying the chassis, so if you are going to modify more, why not choose something else?

As for others that have speculated that a blown engine is due to poor maintenance, that can be a major factor yes, but I am now of the opinion that the 2.2 cylinder head is of such poor quality that it corrodes away and cracks, rather than the other way of being overheated and then cracking.  So even if you maintain it correctly it could eventually let you down.  It may take longer, and it is a shame since whilst the engine has it's faults - low power in standard trim, leaks oil easily if not used regularly and cared for, heavy flywheel as it was built for a saloon car, etc. it is also a lovely engine to use when slightly tuned as with the 'S' or equivalent, having lots of torque and instant pick up, a generally strong bottom end (unless you take it too high! 8000 rpm indeed!) and reasonable consumption for a carburettor engine.

Don't forget, Matra wanted the all alloy fuel injected Renault 2 litre originally, and having driven behind that engine in my Espace I can see why, it is a smooth, quick and light engine and I'm sure it would have suited the Murena well.  However, it was not to be...

Well done to Tim for getting another Murena back on the road.  I hope to see you at a club meeting in it soon.

Roy
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suffolkpete
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2009, 01:06:51 pm »

Quote
Well done to Tim for getting another Murena back on the road
And for taking a Mondeo off it  Grin
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krede
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2009, 03:05:41 pm »

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And for taking a Mondeo off it

HA HA HA HA!!  Grin

Quote
but I am now of the opinion that the 2.2 cylinder head is of such poor quality that it corrodes away and cracks, rather than the other way of being overheated and then cracking.

I wonder if the Pug 505 heads were better.?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 03:07:52 pm by krede » Logged
Matranut
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« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2009, 08:24:08 pm »

Quote
Well done to Tim for getting another Murena back on the road
And for taking a Mondeo off it  Grin

Thanks for the quips about Mondeo's - great! Thanks also to Roy for your comments - I hope to be at the next meeting in Norfolk.
On a different note - the only problem so far has been the driveshafts which have started to 'click' after about 940 miles - I am sure Tom (my mechanic) and I will have it sorted by the next meeting  - I am intending to drive to Croatia for a holiday in August so must conquer these minor problems now.
I have sent some photos and a write-up to Lennart so hopefully he will publish them soon. If anyone else wants them please send me your e-mail address and I will gladly forward photos to you.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2009, 06:07:00 am »

As for others that have speculated that a blown engine is due to poor maintenance, that can be a major factor yes, but I am now of the opinion that the 2.2 cylinder head is of such poor quality that it corrodes away and cracks, rather than the other way of being overheated and then cracking. 

Roy, you probably remember the failed cylinder head I had bought cheaply on eBay when you were here? I think that proves your point since it had no signs of over heating, yet had small holes of corrosion around the water channels on the exhaust side. It was obviously not overheated at all. It needs dentists work to be welded back in shape.

I can post some photos of this particular case if anyone is courious.

/Anders
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Waldo
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2009, 10:05:34 am »

On a different note - the only problem so far has been the driveshafts which have started to 'click' after about 940 miles - I am sure Tom (my mechanic) and I will have it sorted by the next meeting  - I am intending to drive to Croatia for a holiday in August so must conquer these minor problems now.
I have sent some photos and a write-up to Lennart so hopefully he will publish them soon. If anyone else wants them please send me your e-mail address and I will gladly forward photos to you.

I have some experience with modified driveshafts... You need to be carefull to get the correct length.
It's a long story, but I rebuild the driveshafts for a Alfa V6 conversion, as the shafts were to short.

I think it's to much to post my info here, but you can send me a pm if you think you could details of my experience.
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Matranut
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2009, 09:20:07 pm »

Hi Waldo,
Thanks but I think we have found the problem! I feel REALLY daft! After changing/making and lengthening/shortening 6 driveshafts we noticed that one of the infamous anti-rattle springs was broken on the drivers side caliper! Fixed up a temporary repair - no clicking! As Homer Simpson always says......... DOH!!!!!!
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2009, 05:46:38 pm »

Sorry for having taken so long to get this done - it was partly because I have been busy, but then I also forgot - which doesn't help Smiley

Tim sent me a word document, which I have crudely converted to HTML and put available in the Murena conversions section here:

http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Conv/t.boyes/index.html

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
krede
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2009, 05:55:37 pm »

Awesome!! we need more of these stories on the site ! Smiley.. (well.. if michael will let us Wink )
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michaltalbot
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2009, 09:25:56 pm »

Awesome!! we need more of these stories on the site ! Smiley.. (well.. if michael will let us Wink )

I'm not a judge and everybody has his own responsibility. This night i had a dream - i was driving something like MS670 on the circuit. so today, i browsed through a lot of pictures of Matra race cars and have seen pictures from Mortefontaine in 1997. Behind the MS120 there is a group of Murenas - all of them are in the original condition. It really looks like Matra meeting. When there will be more and more conversions, tunings and other ways of making "anything else" but not nice Murena, than one day the Matra meeting will be anything else but not Matra meeting.
I don't mind about your converted cars, but still couldn't understand why you are doing this just to a Matra? When i sold my silver 2,2 for cca 5000,-Eur 3 years ago, i was thinking what else to buy? I decided again for Murena, simply because i love the car, the history of Matra and its spirit, which is in this car. If you don't like a Murena, if you don't care about the real feeling of driving the product of all Matra engineers, than i understand it...
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2009, 01:35:14 pm »

I decided again for Murena, simply because i love the car, the history of Matra and its spirit, which is in this car. If you don't like a Murena, if you don't care about the real feeling of driving the product of all Matra engineers, than i understand it...

I understand your sentiment Michal, but the discussion on originality is always a matter of discussion. I agree with you when it comes to major design modifications though.

But the nice, original looking Murena's you saw on the Mortefontaine pictures may have had unoriginal steering-wheels, wheels or engines.

My car was a 1.6 which originally had steel rims, which in my case were almost rusted away, which is why I opted for new alloys, and I don't regard that as a major step away from originality. I could have obtained a set of 2.2 alloys, but they are so difficult to keep clean, when you drive the car every day.

My Peugeot 205gti engine was put in because I had a long list of things that had gone wrong with the old engine (cracked clutch housing, gearbox in need of major overhaul) - but had Matra continued the Murena, I am quite confident the XU9JA engine would have made it into the car anyway.

I will be the first to admit my car isn't truely 100% original - however if you look at it from a distance, it looks fairly original, and it is in a state where it can be used everyday and thus keep the world aware of the brand.

Having said that, I am glad we have originality-enthusiasts like you to remind us all  :-)

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
michaltalbot
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« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2009, 05:04:34 pm »

but had Matra continued the Murena, I am quite confident the XU9JA engine would have made it into the car anyway.

Yes, i agree with this, i think that if Murena had been produced longer, the 1,6 would be replaced by Peug 1,9 16V and 2,2 would be replaced by 2,2 Turbo or better new produced 2,2 16V (also with Turbo?).
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krede
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« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2009, 05:28:43 pm »

I think the pug 505 turbo would be the obvious choice of engine as it would have been extremely easy to fit.
I'm sure it would have come with a special body kit that allowed for more air into the engine compartment and possibly an intercooler.

However.. I have little doubt that the engine that WOULD most likely have made it into the Murena, given time, would have been the Pvr V6.... its more prestigious with a couple of extra cylinders. Wink

But I agree ,so some extend , with Michal.. at the time will come where we would all wish that our cars were 100% stock...... but not yet Wink   
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2009, 07:54:29 pm »

I'm sure there will be enough original Murena's around to satisfy demand. At the moment, the Murena is still a fun car, but the chassis (and body) often lasts longer than the engines, and since the engine is relatively rare (at least the 2.2), I don't find it strange that people replace them.

As with Lennarts car.

But originality will always have a value, and it has too now. I don't think any one should fear the world running out of original Murena's.

As for the discussion about what engines Matra would have fitted if they had continued the production of the Murena, I find it quite 'academic' Wink

Cheers,
Anders

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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
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