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Author Topic: 2.2dt electronics swap  (Read 8583 times)
ross
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« on: July 18, 2009, 06:15:50 pm »

This is not strictly a new topic as I have been running with this problem for the past 4 years and have posted a few messages, and had a some interesting comments in reply.
For those of you who are not familiar with the problem my Espace has I will quickly recap.
The current situation is that I have a 2.2dt Grand Espace, on a W plate, which has had a problem with the remote central locking ever since I bought the car some 4 years ago.
The local Renault agent wanted £1000 to replace all the electronic components, and re-code the keys.
I have lived with the inconvenience of having to lock the car on the internal central locking button, and then locking the passenger front door, until now.
I have recently aquired another 2.2dt, which has suffered the usual cambelt problem, and I am contemplating doing a complete electronics transplant, from donor car to my Espace, B11 computer - dashboard - keys and diesel pump.
There are a couple of areas that concern me, and it is for this reason I am seeking any guidance you all may be able to offer.
My Espace has more features on it than has the donor car.
By this I mean that my Espace has rear electric windows, and a rear opening window in the rear hatch door, that the donor car does not have.
Is it possible for the B11 to be reprogrammed to enable these options ?
From my enquiries I can see no reason for the transplant not to be successful, with the exception of the options problem.
Before I embark on the task I would like to hear from anyone who can see any flaw in my cunning plan.
If anyone needs any bits from my donor car please let me know.
Regards
Ross
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2005 Grande Espace 2.2DCi
1994 2.1Td Espace
2005 Kangoo 1.2
1977 Renault 16TL
1974 Renault 16TX
renaultbiler
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009, 11:15:35 pm »

Hi,

Re config of BII is no problem, but must be done with CLIP, NXR or XR25 (XR25 if BII older than y 2000 aprox)

Check that the BII unit from donor car have the same part number as yours, or if both are BII B3 you are fine - or both is BII B2 you should also be fine. If donor is BII B2 and yours is BII B3 you could have a problem with some optional configs, but not nessesarily.

You dont have to replace the pump solenoid if you know YOUR cars 4 digit security code - just replace BII + instrument cluster and key plip's - then turn ignition ON and enter the 4 digit code through the central locking button on the roof console (the code on YOUR car, not the donor) - ign OFF and ign ON again and YOUR solenoid have been recoded to match the "new" BII unit.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
ross
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Posts: 98


« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2009, 04:30:50 pm »

Thankyou Tom, for your reply to my question, it was very interesting and could prove very useful.
Before I decide to strip down the donor car, I am trying to find out what damage the engine has suffered, as I hate to see a good espace go to the scrap, especially one that hasn't covered 100,000 miles.
Does anyone know what damage is caused if the piston hits the valves ?
I have taken the engine out of the car and removed the rocker cover to look at the camshaft and valves.
When I slowly turn the camshaft, I cannot see any sign of a sticking valve, as they all seem to be moving the same.
How much does it take for the piston to hit the valve ?
Is it only as little as 0.001"(0.025mm), or does it have to be as much as 0.25"(6.35mm) ?
I will try and measure the movement of each valve, accurately, to see if there is any difference between them.
I am trying to make sure that I need to take the cylinder head off, before I proceed further, to avoid the cost of new bolts and head gasket, to put it back together.
When I turn the engine over on the starter there is a worrying knocking noise, so there seems to be something wrong, but I am trying to make absolutely certain what has occured before going further.
Any help and advice will be much appreciated.
Regards
Ross
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2005 Grande Espace 2.2DCi
1994 2.1Td Espace
2005 Kangoo 1.2
1977 Renault 16TL
1974 Renault 16TX
renaultbiler
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2009, 06:05:17 pm »

I think a compression test would tell you most when still assembled.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2009, 08:34:27 pm »

I'd be very surprised if the valves were not hurt, so I'd take the head off to inspect in any case, but agree with Tom, that a compression test would be a first.

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
ross
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Posts: 98


« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 09:10:44 pm »

Many thanks Anders & Tom for your suggestion.
I have tried to do a compression test and found that one of the rocker arms has snapped.
I am not sure if the broken rocker arm is the only damage caused to the engine, but I need to get hold of at least one replacement rocker arm before I can get any further.
Has anyone any sensible ideas as to where I can get some reasonably priced rocker arms from ?
Renault want £50 for one.
I would be willing to buy one if I knew that was the only problem.
I will let you know if I manage to obtain the rocker arms, and if there is any further damage.
Many thanks for your help so far.
Regards
Ross
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2005 Grande Espace 2.2DCi
1994 2.1Td Espace
2005 Kangoo 1.2
1977 Renault 16TL
1974 Renault 16TX
JL
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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2009, 02:33:19 pm »

The rocker arm has probably snapped because it was trying to push the valve open while the piston was making contact with valve trying to close it! I would be very surprised if you do not have valve damage. Take the head off and fill the combustion chambers with paraffin, where there is damage or the seal is not good the paraffin will run out of the port.

John

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renaultbiler
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 09:58:21 pm »

Bear in mind that some Renault engines have built in "breaking point" on the rocker arm to brake it before valves are damaged - the dt engine have this if i remember correct. You might have been lucky on this one.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
fragmaster
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Posts: 9


« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 01:46:17 pm »

This is not strictly a new topic as I have been running with this problem for the past 4 years and have posted a few messages, and had a some interesting comments in reply.
For those of you who are not familiar with the problem my Espace has I will quickly recap.
The current situation is that I have a 2.2dt Grand Espace, on a W plate, which has had a problem with the remote central locking ever since I bought the car some 4 years ago.
The local Renault agent wanted £1000 to replace all the electronic components, and re-code the keys.
I have lived with the inconvenience of having to lock the car on the internal central locking button, and then locking the passenger front door, until now.
I have recently aquired another 2.2dt, which has suffered the usual cambelt problem, and I am contemplating doing a complete electronics transplant, from donor car to my Espace, B11 computer - dashboard - keys and diesel pump.
There are a couple of areas that concern me, and it is for this reason I am seeking any guidance you all may be able to offer.
My Espace has more features on it than has the donor car.
By this I mean that my Espace has rear electric windows, and a rear opening window in the rear hatch door, that the donor car does not have.
Is it possible for the B11 to be reprogrammed to enable these options ?
From my enquiries I can see no reason for the transplant not to be successful, with the exception of the options problem.
Before I embark on the task I would like to hear from anyone who can see any flaw in my cunning plan.
If anyone needs any bits from my donor car please let me know.
Regards
Ross

hi there , the norm is for it to break rocker arms, htese can be nought on ebay for a fraction of the of the price.. also it may have sheared the locating tab on the camshaftpulley wheel, this is another thing that happens to minimise damage, it all usually starts with the water pump leaking , belt rotting and tensioners seizing so think about changing all when stripped down
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ross
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Posts: 98


« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2010, 08:57:10 pm »

Hi fragmaster,
As you may have noticed my post was some time ago, and I have now been running with my repaired engine, and electronics swap for about 6 months. The fault with my original engine was a worn camshaft and pulley wheel, which allowed a couple of rocker arms to jump off when the engine was under load and high revs. The spare engine did indeed have a couple of broken rocker arms and the pulley wheel had its key pip broken, which had allowed it to rotate out of synch with the pump and crank pulleys. I managed to get the spare engine going using the good bits from both engines and it ran nicely, for about 6 months, until I got hold of another complete crankshaft + pulley wheel + rockers to repair my original engine. I have now swapped the engines over so that I am now running with my original engine once more. I wish I had known about the way to reset the diesel pump code, as it is not an easy task to remove and swap the solenoids from the pumps. It might have been easier to swap the complete pumps, but I didn't like the idea of having to reset the pump timing, which from what I read was not an easy task. My original engine seems to be running fine, touch wood,  and I have a spare engine just in case of further problems. My only current problem is that I seem to have picked up a water leak, which is filling up the storage bin under the drivers seat, and at the moment I can't find the source of the leak. The carpets all seem to be dry, except for the ones inside the storage bin. I assume the water is in the double floor skin and running to the lowest point which must be the bin. I will have to take all the carpets out and watch to see where the water is comming from. All part of the joy of being an Espace owner.
Many thanks for your message.
Regards........Ross
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2005 Grande Espace 2.2DCi
1994 2.1Td Espace
2005 Kangoo 1.2
1977 Renault 16TL
1974 Renault 16TX
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