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Author Topic: BAGHEERA and "other" engine - testing  (Read 25079 times)
Spyros
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2009, 08:17:11 pm »

About 10 years ago, I bought one of these 260 X 296 camshaft.
...
The cam has 295 degrees of inlet and no 260 and also 295 degrees of outlet (maybee 296)

That sounds more likely. You don't have it installed in a car yet? I've got a cam with similar period on my Murena, and it's a lot of fun on the road with great torque at 4000 rpm and peak power well above 6000 rpm.

Of course I did. With plenty of other modification. But knowing that, why am I developping 16V heads on Simca engines ?

Quote
Quote
Sometimes what you get from these vendors are strange.
I have a Simca 1200 S engine awaiting his pistons to be closed.
The camshaft is supposed to come from CatCams but CatCams is not selling this profile...
The lift is of 6.5, which is not on their catalog

See here
...

Yes, it can be confusing.

I took a look at Cat Cams' catalogue. Intersting stuff. They have a 331 degrees cam for the engine. That sounds like a wonderful starting point for a ridiculous race engine! I don't dare guessing on the max power, but it will probably take very special components to make it run perfectly.

Not that exotic.
It seems that until the 1440 cc engine, they are quite bulletproof

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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2009, 06:56:00 pm »

Of course I did. With plenty of other modification. But knowing that, why am I developping 16V heads on Simca engines ?

This is a quiz Smiley

1. It failed?
2. It did not produce enough power?
3. You got bored and needed two new projects?
3. You tell me! Wink

Quote
I took a look at Cat Cams' catalogue. Intersting stuff. They have a 331 degrees cam for the engine. That sounds like a wonderful starting point for a ridiculous race engine! I don't dare guessing on the max power, but it will probably take very special components to make it run perfectly.

Not that exotic.
It seems that until the 1440 cc engine, they are quite bulletproof
[/quote]

Interesting... were they ever homologated for a race/rally car?

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Spyros
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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2009, 10:41:29 am »

Still under the sad news of Andy's diff...

The answer a a mix of 2 and 3 : soory in French http://www.bagheera-cafe.com/viewtopic.php?t=127

Very long project but start to see the end
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Phillip Wendt
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2009, 11:29:05 pm »

I actually know the Bagheera which you have spotted on dba.dk, as I have done some work on it for a previous owner.
In my opinion the car is in good shape without rust in the chassis but that is very difficult to find out on a Bagheera without stripping the car down completely.
The car has a few modifications.
•A small front spoiler which looks OK.
•Instead of the original rear window the car has a Ferrari style hatch at the back which is not really to my liking.
•The car has “oversize” wheels and as far as I remember small modifications were necessary in order to create space for the bigger wheels.
•The engine and gearbox has been changed from the original 1442 cc engine and 4 speed gearbox to a 1.6 Solara unit with a 5 speed gearbox. The Solara engine is a larger capacity version of the 1442cc engine but the horsepower output are almost identical for the two engine types.


Hej Hans, jeg er den nye ejer af den overstående bil.. og ja kan godt følge dig med mange af de ting du skriver har bla. skiftet fælge til compomotive 15"... Men det mit spørgsmål det er om jeg kan få lagt en alfa v6 i en bagheera... fordi bilen savner motorkraft!

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•The cabin does not have the original seats arrangement with three seats across, but the car is fitted with two aftermarket sports seats. This I think is a big disadvantage as the seat arrangement with three seats was a major part of MATRA’s design philosophy and without the original seating arrangement the Bagheera has lost its “soul”.

In my humble opinion this Bagheera is far too good to be used for racing and also too expensive for a racing project.

Hans
« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 06:34:48 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2009, 06:36:52 am »

Hej Hans, jeg er den nye ejer af den overstående bil.. og ja kan godt følge dig med mange af de ting du skriver har bla. skiftet fælge til compomotive 15"... Men det mit spørgsmål det er om jeg kan få lagt en alfa v6 i en bagheera... fordi bilen savner motorkraft!

Hej Philip

Congratulations on the car and welcome to the forum!

/Anders

PS: This section of forum is mostly in english - we also have a danish section.
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Phillip Wendt
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2009, 02:10:24 pm »

No problem at all, then i will just reply in english. Well the major problem is that i dont have any history of the car and therefore dont know which part to buy. Does anyone know anything about my car?

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Bagheera Lars
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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2009, 04:53:40 pm »

Hi Philip

Congratulation on your Matra.

A couple of years ago, your car, and its owner was a member of Matra Club Denmark. Like Hans, I have seen your car many times, but what I remember most is, that the owner who made it look like it does today, spend the most of his time working on the car, and hardly never drove it. He was always afraid it would break down around the next corner!... Wink.. Like Hans, I remember it to be a pretty decent example of the Serie 2 Bagheeras, whether you like the modifications or not.

I hope that you will get a little more fun out of it, even though you´re not satisfied with its engine. I Also hope that we will get the car..and of course you, back in the Matra Club.

Lars Tjørnelund
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M 530 LX 1972, Bagheera 1 S 1976, Rancho 1978
Phillip Wendt
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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2009, 08:42:15 pm »

thanks... i just need some info towards the engine thats in the car, because it isnt org. Further more i would like to know if someone could help me fixing the gearbox... i have many questions about the car and the club. Therefore it would be nice to talk to you lars over the phone, so if you could send me you nr, (if you dont mind of course Smiley) it would be lovely to know more about these fantastic cars!
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Matra_Hans
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Owner of Bagheera, Rancho, Murena & Espace


« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2009, 07:56:55 am »

Hi
The 1.6 engine and 5 speed gearbox in your Bagheera is from a Talbot Solara. The Talbot engine is almost identical with the 1442 engine., only the stroke is longer. The gearbox is from the same Solara but Talbot got the box from Peugeot so it is a Peugeot BE1 gearbox.

I do not think that a Alfa V6 has ever been installed in a Bagheera. But in a Murena the engine is a very tight fit and the Bagreera's engine compartment is narrover than the one in the Murena, consequently I doubt that it will be possible. However please have in mind that if you want to use the Bagheera on the Dansih roads you are only allowed to increase the engine power by  20 % (85 x 1.2 = 102 HP).

However if you should deside to go original with your Bagheera I am still have the original engine and gearbox for your Bagheera in my store.

Hans
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Spyros
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2009, 09:07:07 am »

I presume Matra_Hans was meanin the bore instead of the stroke.
Stroke is the same. However with a specific crankshaft.

There was also 2 version of the Solara 1600 with a different power.

As for the V6, it does not fit.
The Bagheera has the torsion bars in the way
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Phillip Wendt
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« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2009, 09:45:13 am »

well, okay thak you for the information, The first step im considering are other wheels... Any ideas.. i was thinking about changing the wheels out for compomotives in the size 13-15" as 16" wheels dont suit the car... The next thing i would like to know about. Is how to get more power in to the car without doing the engine transplant...?

And Hans, can you remember why the previous owner changed the engine out ? Meaning, that if the new engine has maybe 2-5 hp more than the original one, then why bother to change it out ?

And concerning the club, how do you become a member?
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Matra_Hans
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« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2009, 11:50:43 am »

Hi
As far as I remember the previous owner of you Bagheera changed the whole driveplant due to problems with the gearbox, but he was also very keen to get some extra horse power. (However he was not satisfiyed with the increase in power).
The engine in your Bagheera is the 90 HP version of the Solara engine (there is also a 70 HP version).

Spyros: I was very much in doubt if it was the bore or the stroke that has been increased. From the 1300 cc to the 1442 engine the stroke is increased and from the 1422 to the 1.6 the bore has been increased, or is the other way around. (Siting in Vladikavkaz I had no chanses of checking my documentation)

Getting extra horse power: traditional tuning, turbo, compressor and/or NOx. Depending on your wishes, skills and money available. Please have in mind that adding a turbo or a compressor will be considered at adding more than 20% by the Danish authorities, and you will there fore have some additional trouble and paperwork to do.

To become a member of the Dansih Matra Club you simply send a PM to Bagheera_Lars who has been our chairman for more that 10 years.

Hans
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Spyros
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« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2009, 01:34:13 pm »

Hi Hans,

On this type of engine, 3 strokes have been used : 65, 70, and 78.
I list the 65 stroke due to it's usage on small engines but also due to the reving capacity  Smiley
The 1290 and 1442 shares the same bore (76,7) and differs by the stroke (70 versus 78)

The 1442 and 1590 have the same stroke (78) but the 1590 has equidistant bores of 80,6
The 1442 has the cylinder pairs 1-2 and 3-4 more appart.

Interestingly, some are telling me that you can just rebore a non equidistant bloc to 80.6
I'm not sure it will allways work since in between the pair 2-3, there is a water conduct.
If successfull, starting with a 1442 engine, you'll get the 1590, without the supposed high rev flexing of the crank.
But starting with a 1290, you get a more free reving engine (I have a 1290 Bagheera and it's a joy) and a 1430 cc engine (even a ... 1442 with the first repair size)
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Phillip Wendt
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« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2009, 05:21:13 pm »

Well, thank you for the information. Im looking for more power but how dó i achieve This and WHO Can install a compressor for mé. And where do i buy the parts??
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Matra_Hans
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« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2009, 10:22:44 am »

Hi Phillip
Regarding your urge for more power, where to get the parts and who can do the work, we are back the the uestion regarding your skills and / or the money awailable. If you have the skills and can do the work yourself or one of your mates can help of do it for you then the tuning work can be done cheap using useparts as an exampl using a VW G-lader and  welding up a manifold your self. Alternativly you will have to go to a specialist company and pay them to do the work but then we are talking big money. There is no off the shelf aftermarket tunng kit for that engine.

You can elsewher on this forum find some information regarding Andy Owl's tuning plans.

Hans
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