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Author Topic: BAGHEERA and "other" engine - testing  (Read 25187 times)
Phillip Wendt
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Posts: 29


« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2009, 11:31:17 am »

Hi Hans, the main problem is that i can help to do the project under supervision of someone, who knows what he is doing. Therefore it becomes a problem that i dont have the space or the knowledge to fix the engine alone. My idea was to get a new engine and strip it right down, put "tuning" part in it, and then when its done, put it back into the car. But the problem is that i dont know where to find another engine, without having to buy a new one from simon and the next issue is whitch tuning part to get? What would give me extra power? ....
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Spyros
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Posts: 323

I'm a real donkey!


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« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2009, 05:59:12 pm »

Phillip,

Such an engine, you find it second hand everywhere.
Tuning part ?
There are no tuning part.
The only thing you'll find in a shop is maybee a camshaft
You need to do your homework. Study, see what part needs amending, what you can adapt, ...
Lots of work.

Or enjoy the car as is  Smiley
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Lanng
Full Member
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Posts: 70


Its complicated...


« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2009, 06:50:04 pm »

PHILIP - not only do you steal my "I might buy car" car! You also steal my thread!!!

Anyway - I saw a Bagherra engine and gearbox for sale at Ebay.fr and a mate of mine knows of two Bagherras some where in Denmark; but he hasent got back to me. I will drop you a mail if I find something else.

Best of luck with the project! How about eletronic ignition and megasquirt? A guy from the Saab club got 1.5 km/l extra and some 10 bhp by setting up the megasquirt system correctly.

/// Lanng
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andyowl
Sr. Member
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Posts: 456


New exhaust "straight through" - good sound!


« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2009, 09:55:34 pm »

Please excuse my ignorance but what is "Megasquirt"?

Andy Owler
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Lanng
Full Member
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Posts: 70


Its complicated...


« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2009, 11:21:04 pm »

Hi Andy

No prob.

Megasquirt is a standalone engine control system. It can be setup to just control fuel, but also mixture, combined with other sensores etc etc.
It is all controllabel by a PC with USB port - so "quite" easy to upgrade and define the superb setting for you engine.

Here is a bit of info / links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLTqAi-DIL4 - The eletronic part and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vNy74YzQV8 - Mounted in a Saab 900 turbo and controlled by a Palm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHMWjhRinBo&feature=related - Setting it up by computer.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html - The homepage.

There is some dedicated forums - but couldnt find them Smiley

/// Lanng
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andyowl
Sr. Member
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Posts: 456


New exhaust "straight through" - good sound!


« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2009, 10:13:07 am »

Thanks for that!

Clever stuff but it seems only suitable for engines using fuel injection.

I did wonder about using Nitrous Oxide ("NOx") on a Bagheera. There seems to be enough space in the boot for the tanks etc. Anyone tried that?

Andy Owler
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Lanng
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Posts: 70


Its complicated...


« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2009, 12:45:44 pm »

"Clever stuff but it seems only suitable for engines using fuel injection" - Sorry for not pointing that out. Just thought if Phillip wanted to go all-the-way, why not go for fuel injection - eventhough that would mean custom parts (and $$$).

Have you thought about a compressor or supercharger for the Bagherra?

/// Lanng
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Lanng
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Posts: 70


Its complicated...


« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2009, 12:47:23 pm »

"Have you thought about a compressor or supercharger for the Bagherra?"

I rest my case... I found your Supercharger thread.

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1539.0.html

/// Lanng
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Matra_Hans
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Posts: 642


Owner of Bagheera, Rancho, Murena & Espace


« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2009, 03:42:37 pm »

Lanng wrote

There is some dedicated forums - but couldnt find them Smiley

Hi
Here are some Megasquirt forums:
http://www.megasquirt.org/megasquirt.html
http://www.megasquirtmaps.com/board/
Hans

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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2009, 04:30:50 pm »

I did wonder about using Nitrous Oxide ("NOx") on a Bagheera.

I don't think it's possible at all to NOx a carburetted engine?

Megasquirt is a standalone engine control system. It can be setup to just control fuel, but also mixture, combined with other sensores etc etc.
It is all controllabel by a PC with USB port - so "quite" easy to upgrade and define the superb setting for you engine.

Problem with megasquirt and any other FI system is that it can be very expensive to convert a carburetted engine to EFI. The problem is availability of mechanical components, particularly fitting of fuel injectors in the manifold. Also, there's no easy way to find a "superb setting" for any engine, fuel injected or not, and lastly, EFI will not give you any significant performance advantages over the carburetted engine.

And a performance cam will still be needed to get more power out of the engine.

So unless you have a lot of funds you want to spend on tuning your engine, stick with the carbs and go the traditional route's instead: Free flowing exhaust, porting/polishing of the head, and performance cam shaft. That should give you plenty of fun, both building and running!

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Lanng
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Posts: 70


Its complicated...


« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2009, 05:12:53 pm »

Dear all

To Matra_Hans; Thanks!

To Anders; been reading up on porting und polishing - so "make" it sound VERY difficult and some have quite an relaxed attitude towards it. From what I understand its all about beaing able to "flow test" while porting - which seems a bit expencive. UK = +1000£, Sweden = 1100£ euro, Denmark = 1500£ - These are not Quted prices - just what people have paid and with no standard to the work done except for port und polish.

/// Lanng
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Matra_Hans
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Owner of Bagheera, Rancho, Murena & Espace


« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2009, 05:57:11 pm »

Regarding NOx I have tried to find some info regarding NOx injection on engines with carburetors and I found some info on the Danish webpage powerpage.dk http://powerpage.dk/tuning_lattergas.aspx unfortunately all texts are in Danish, but the attached diagram illustrates the efficiency of installing a “50 kg” NOx injector on a Ford 2 liter OHC engine equipped with 2x 40 DOHC Webers. The result an increase from 140 HP to 180 HK.

So Anders after this you simply have to try out the combination of double Webers and NOx!!

The diagram has been copied from powerage.dk.

Hans

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Spyros
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2009, 06:52:40 pm »

On Nox, I was about to come with the marvelous book of Dave Vizard "Tuning the A serie engine" but Hans beat me with another good example...
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2009, 10:03:05 pm »

Nice page, Hans, but they don't explain how they add the addtional fuel necessary to avoid going seriously lean when the NOx is blown in?

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Lanng
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Posts: 70


Its complicated...


« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2012, 01:27:41 pm »

Now that I found and bought my Bagheera´s, I thought it was time for another round of "What if I fitted a ...".

Still thinking of fitting a different engine to the Bagheera. Someone fitted a RX7 engine and another I forgot in his Murena - so with luck and skill much is possible (however luck and skill is no friend of mine). So since there was plans of fitting a V8 in the first Bagheera, I thought of looking into the world of V6 engines.

Since the space in the engine compartment is smaller in the Bagheera than the Murena, I concluded that a Alfa 3.0 V6 size engine might be to heavy and to big. So what to do... Apperently both Mazda and Mitsu. has a 2.0 V6 engine in their line up. The Mitsu mounted in the FTO is a 170bhp 2.0v6 24V engine, there is also a 2.0v6 12v engine and mazda has the 1.8v6 24v and a 2.0v6 24v. Since the Mazda engines are designed to take up as little space as possible - that might be the first place to go. Both are light power units, so I "hope" they wiegh less than the 150kg than the orginal 1442ccm power unit. There is also a Toyota 1.6L 125bhp engine, that weight 150bhp and is a faverite among Toyota nutters.

Since the Bagheera is only designed to handle 100bhp (or so) that also means upgrading breaks etc. And also fitting engine, gearbox and the aux (generator, waterpump etc) is the other problen.

I was lucky enough to find to Bagheera which has stod in a shed/barn for 12 years but one of them is so rusty, that I was affriad that it would break in half when lifting them into storage with a fork lift. BUT BUT BUT, this also means that I will have a "testbed" when all the usable parts has been removed from the car. This should make testing power unit etc much easier.

Since a have two classic Saab 900 on my hands, it will take a while before geting to the Bagheera project - but speculations and "dreams" for the project is also half the joy Smiley so with time, I will see what the Bagheera project brings  Cheesy

Best regareds
Lanng
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