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Author Topic: Espace v6 2000 mk3 Auto gearbox or coil ?  (Read 5716 times)
dragonzuiko
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« on: August 27, 2010, 08:09:50 pm »

My Espace is starting to play up when i am going up hill, if feels like the car is holding back and then the car starts vibrating / jerking etc , the  car seems to be hunting abit on low revs, not sure if the box is slipping of the coil is playing up.i have already replaced the front coil and plugs.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 08:28:33 pm by dragonzuiko » Logged
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2010, 09:28:49 pm »

Does this happen when it's cold or also when hot?
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
dragonzuiko
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2010, 10:06:20 pm »

Some mornings it will play up when cold, even on flat roads. When it played up the hills the car has been standing for a good hour or two before my return trip back home, which is only a 10 minute drive. so i would say mainly cold engine. i just done over two hundred miles round trip and had no problems at all, for some reason the car dont like a couple of hills near me.   
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2010, 10:28:19 pm »

Whats the mileage ?
Does it work okay if pushing it on high revs (3000 rpm ++) in lower gear ?

My experience is that it is sensitive to spark plug type, i would replace all 6 to genuine NGK or Beru Ultra-X
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
dragonzuiko
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2010, 11:22:45 pm »

its done 83000 miles. i notice the more revs i give it it goes away, seems to play up on low revs, when i slow down and turn into a road it coughs abit then as well, and clears when i put my foot down.

I have 3 ngk plugs in the front with a new coil pack,i put these in a few months ago and the car has been running great, but here in the UK we have lots of rain and damp mornings, so i am getting the dodgy electrics and the car playing up.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2010, 12:09:46 am »

So it's worse on damp mornings? If so it could be a simple moisture related problem. Though the symptoms could also be because of bad sensors.

You could need a new set of ignition cables for the rearmost bank. A good spray of WD40 might do it, though.

Another possibility is the connector on top of the gearbox. It can get filled with moisture causing the gearbox computer to make false sensor readings (oil temperature). It will then retard the igntion on the engine computer to protect the gearbox from damage, which could give the same symptom.
That connector sits under the air filter box, so you need to remove it to get access (not bad though).

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
dragonzuiko
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 48


« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2010, 11:07:16 am »

So it's worse on damp mornings? If so it could be a simple moisture related problem. Though the symptoms could also be because of bad sensors.

You could need a new set of ignition cables for the rearmost bank. A good spray of WD40 might do it, though.

Another possibility is the connector on top of the gearbox. It can get filled with moisture causing the gearbox computer to make false sensor readings (oil temperature). It will then retard the igntion on the engine computer to protect the gearbox from damage, which could give the same symptom.
That connector sits under the air filter box, so you need to remove it to get access (not bad though).

/Anders

Thanks for the reply. I took the car to the shops this morning and the car is playing on low revs even when warm,on they way back it felt like it misfired, seems to clear up when i put my foot down,yes it coughs abit on cold mornings and normally goes away when warmed up, like the strange electric problems i am getting.could be all the same fault on the car.

The hill problem i just started getting can be any time off the day, normally when the car has been standing a while. it feels like its in the wrong gear, if i boot it up the hill it seems ok. the other day i went up a really steep hill must of went on for a good mile, the car never had no problem with a full car load but the car was warmed up.

I will check the front coil and leads today, and try to get the airbox off to get to that gearbox connector, the sun has come out for a change.

cheers Peter  


« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 01:06:32 pm by dragonzuiko » Logged
dragonzuiko
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Posts: 48


« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 05:55:09 pm »

Finally got the front coil off today, guess what ? i had my own little pond in the spark plug pots, no 3 was full to the top and 1,2 was half full, no wonder why it misfired. i cleared the water out and it runs alot better, still missing slightly when i drop the revs off but the car is still flying  Grin

I still need to test it on the dreaded hill, but i am hoping it was water in the pots.

Does anybody know how the water gets in these pots ? i only put the new coil in a few months ago ?
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 07:56:44 pm »

Some of these 24v (early ones) had problem with water ingress by the wiper mecanism, dripping on the engine, anyhow it shpuld not collect much water. Pay attention to it for a while and see if you can track the water. Also make sure its not wiper washing fluid due to leaking washer pipes spraying the engine area (had this on our Scenic, i thought it was water and scratched head until i noticed it was washing fluid and leaking hose above the engine).

You might have water in the rear bank aswell, i would take off the inlet manifoil and check for water + replace sparkplugs.

And clean the coil and coil rubber insulation good, you can pull it off the coil. They are also available as spare parts since they can cause spark to escape once they have been wet.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 08:51:53 pm »

It reminds me of an episode about two years ago after a large service on the car, the garage had really cared for it, and Torben, the mechanic said the famous last words - "just call if there's anything wrong!" Smiley

I had not even left the parking lot when the car started shaking like jelly as soon as I touched the pedal... something was wrong, and I put it in reverse and took it back to Torben.

It turned out that he had given the engine a good cleaning - and that the water had fout it's way down to the front plugs. There were three little ponds down there!  Shocked No problem with the back three plugs as he hadn't been spraying any water back there, so as soon as the water was removed and the coils reinstalled, I could drive home - without any problems! Cheesy

Torben later confessed that he actually had created one more problem after the engine wash treatment - that was the connector on top of the gearbox, which had failed and caused complete sensor misreads. So I suggest you check that too (if you hadn't already).

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
dragonzuiko
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 48


« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2010, 10:08:31 pm »

I was looking at the wiper linkage today, i remember my mk2 espace , the water use to come through the wiper arm hole and drop onto the manifold.could be the same with my mk3, its been raining alot hear in the UK. I checked the washer pipes, they look ok and i cleaned all the dead bit of leaves out of the plastic at the bottom of the windscreen, just in case it was blocking the water from the rain.

I have bought some plugs for the rear bank, i might buy a rear coil as well, for some reason they are half the price of the front coil pack, which seems strange considering they come with the leads. i was thinking of buying the rubbers and springs, because they was abit rusty. you would of thought they would of came with the new coil.

Some of these 24v (early ones) had problem with water ingress by the wiper mecanism, dripping on the engine, anyhow it shpuld not collect much water. Pay attention to it for a while and see if you can track the water. Also make sure its not wiper washing fluid due to leaking washer pipes spraying the engine area (had this on our Scenic, i thought it was water and scratched head until i noticed it was washing fluid and leaking hose above the engine).

You might have water in the rear bank aswell, i would take off the inlet manifoil and check for water + replace sparkplugs.

And clean the coil and coil rubber insulation good, you can pull it off the coil. They are also available as spare parts since they can cause spark to escape once they have been wet.
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dragonzuiko
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Posts: 48


« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2010, 10:15:37 pm »

It does seem a common problem, i would imagine the water gets in the same way on most espace's. next time in rains i will be out there with the bonnet up ,and hopefully i will see the problem, i bet it is the wiper linkage grommet letting the water through.

I have not checked the gearbox connector, that will be my next project if the car is still playing up  Smiley

It reminds me of an episode about two years ago after a large service on the car, the garage had really cared for it, and Torben, the mechanic said the famous last words - "just call if there's anything wrong!" Smiley

I had not even left the parking lot when the car started shaking like jelly as soon as I touched the pedal... something was wrong, and I put it in reverse and took it back to Torben.

It turned out that he had given the engine a good cleaning - and that the water had fout it's way down to the front plugs. There were three little ponds down there!  Shocked No problem with the back three plugs as he hadn't been spraying any water back there, so as soon as the water was removed and the coils reinstalled, I could drive home - without any problems! Cheesy

Torben later confessed that he actually had created one more problem after the engine wash treatment - that was the connector on top of the gearbox, which had failed and caused complete sensor misreads. So I suggest you check that too (if you hadn't already).

/Anders
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2010, 06:59:40 am »

I have bought some plugs for the rear bank, i might buy a rear coil as well, for some reason they are half the price of the front coil pack, which seems strange considering they come with the leads.

The rear is cheaper because it's not a coil pack - just a connector block.
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
dragonzuiko
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 48


« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2010, 03:52:54 pm »

I have bought some plugs for the rear bank, i might buy a rear coil as well, for some reason they are half the price of the front coil pack, which seems strange considering they come with the leads.

The rear is cheaper because it's not a coil pack - just a connector block.

That makes sence then, so does the front coil pack control the rear connector block ?

Car was still running crap this morning until it warmed up, time to get the airfilter box off i think  Huh
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2010, 04:35:20 pm »

The HT cables connected on the coil pack goes to the rear spark plugs, it fires 2 spark plugs at the same time - one front + one rear.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
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