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Author Topic: Tyre wear  (Read 8223 times)
smouty
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« on: August 14, 2006, 10:15:46 pm »

Are the JEs known to wear the ouside of the front tyres fairly quickly?
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2006, 11:20:13 pm »

no, - that is a sign of faulty geometry. 

I'm assuming your tyre pressure is correct within reason.

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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2006, 08:29:20 am »

I don't quite agree with you Lennart - on the front, the tyres tend to wear on the outside and it is not necessarily a problem with the geometry. It could be, so it should be checked, but at least when I had it with my previous JE (a 2.0 litre petrol), there was nothing to do about it. Except perhaps: Go slower in the corners.

Interestingly, I have not seen it on the current JE I have - it has much fatter tyres (225 vs 195).

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
smouty
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2006, 01:42:56 pm »

I have the 225x15 also and the problem has got worse since a joint was replaced on the suspension.
The geometry has been checked a number of times by various people and found to be spot on.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2006, 03:49:37 pm »

What joint was that?
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
smouty
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2006, 10:15:01 pm »

Sorry haven't a clue.
I'll have to check back through the bills.
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2006, 06:02:28 pm »

the tyres tend to wear on the outside and it is not necessarily a problem with the geometry.

Well, I would never expect them to wear out quick enough, to prompt anyone to ask the question in a forum like this.

But, I have only had my JE for a year - so who am I to know :-)

I had a J63D for 3 years before that, - and when we got it, it had terribly tyre-wear, and I spend an afternoon with a professional sorting it out.

The only way to rectify it, was to adjust the suspension-rod running from the front of the car, backwards (and out) to the wheel hub. I have tried in vain to find a picture that shows this rod. Its not the normal tracking adjustment, - but involved taking the suspension more or less apart. But at least it WAS adjustable Smiley

The previous owner had probably run through a major pothole, which had bent this rod, - and after unwinding 3 or 4 complete turns, we finally got all measrements right, and the car was bahaving radically better. 

I dIdn't own the car long enough after this adjustment to see if it had any effect on tyre-wear, but I am quite certain the geometry was wrong before, and correct now, so it simply must have improved.

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2006, 12:12:18 am »

found a picture of the mentioned rod - its the one I have painted red on the attached pic. simply the forward facing part of the upper suspension (not really a wishbone, but close)



[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: August 19, 2006, 12:14:04 am by Lennart Sorth » Logged

Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
Ralph2
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2006, 11:48:46 pm »

My Series 2 V6 Espace did wear the outer edges slightly more and I just put that down to the weight transfer when cornering hard, particularly under power. It was a boat anchor that engine, surprised one or two 'quick' cars!

The rod looks like adjustment primarily for castor. I guess you could call it a tie rod (it's called that on a mini for example) but equally you could term it part of an adjustable top wishbone...

Ralph2
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2006, 01:02:59 am »

guess you could call it a tie rod

Thanks for clearing that out.
I thought that tie rod's were only involved in the steering-connection to the wheel hub.
- sic - I lived in UK for two years, but nevertheless I often find I lack words. :-)

/Lennart

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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
Ralph2
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2006, 10:14:40 am »

Lennart, you guys from the Nordic Countries are far too self deprecating. The fact that you know what I just said proves it!

I met with a Danish Matra Enthusiast here in the UK recently and he apologised for his English... Well, he spoke better English than I did, and he had never been to England before! If I could speak two words of Danish I'd be a better man than I am now, more power to you I say.

I would venture to suggest the term 'tie rod' can be applied to any rigid link between two parts of a mechanical contrivance. You are correct, the steering tie rod connects the rack to the hub (via the track rod end, which adjusts the vital tracking geometry) Often the term 'tie rod' is replaced with something more specific, to help identify which part is under discussion.

Respectfully

Ralph

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Martin Tyas
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Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2006, 04:11:48 pm »

I have also experienced tyre wear issues on my 2002 2.2dCi Grand. The geometry has been checked and is (allegedly) perfect but still I got edge wear.... mainly outer edge but also inner edge to a lesser extent.

I also had unusual experience with the original rear tyres... Michelin Pilot Primacy 225/55R16.... both spent most of their life on the rear but the right hand side managed almost 10k more miles than the one on the left hand side. Although the tread on the outer edge of the one that lasted longest had feathered very badly.... to such an extent in fact that when I switched that tyre to the front it felt like I was driving on a cobbled street when driving at low speed. I don't for a minute think that the issues I experienced with the rear tyres are anything related to the Espace.... just two tyres that happened to have different compound mixtures that allowed one to last longer than the other..... and as for the feathering, I have made a point of looking at other vehicles with these same tyres and they all seem to feather... especially when on the rear.

As for the front tyre edge wear.... here are my observations.... for what they may be worth.
I experienced significantly more tyre edge wear when I was doing mostly local and cross country driving on minor roads. Recently I have been doing much more motorway driving and the tyre wear is very even across the whole width of the tyre. I attribute this to the combination of the camber on the front suspension/steering and the width of the tyres....... next time you reverse into a parking space and get out leaving the wheels on full lock just look at the inclination of the front wheels..... and because of the width of tyres on cars these days they cannot help but suffer more from the effects of camber. It's not just the Espace that suffers from this issue. I had a 5 Series BMW that did the same (although not as quickly due to being rear wheel drive) whilst it was getting primarily used for more local driving and my wife's Vauxhall/Opel Astra is no different even with it's low profile 215/40ZR17's as it is mainly used for local journeys and is front wheel drive.

However there are two things that I have done with the Espace that help.
1) I keep the tyre inflation pressures at the recommended settings for full load (2.4bar front and 2.5 bar for the rear). When kept at the top of the inflation pressure range the tyres tend to distort less when in the turn and so don't lay over on their edges quite so much due to the camber angle of the front suspension/steering. I haven't found any noticeable issues with handling or cornering when running them this way, just a slightly firmer ride when driving without any passengers.
2) I've fitted tyres with a non-directional tread pattern so that I can switch them corner to corner if, or when necessary rather than just front to back, so that I can even up the wear. By doing so, when the fronts have started showing signs of wearing on the edges I move them to the rear and get another 7/8000 miles use.

Although I do find the Espace quite sore on tyres anyway..... I've had it since new and in 67,000 miles it's had 7 new tyres and will need 2 changing again within the next 3000 miles..... but at risk of ripping off the L'Oreal adverts "Espace... because it's worth it"

Martin
« Last Edit: September 30, 2006, 06:25:48 pm by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2006, 09:26:50 pm »

..... but at risk of ripping off the L'Oreal adverts "Espace... but it's worth it"

What a sweet declaration :-)

The Espace - especially the JE model - *is* a heavy car, and consequently has quite powerful engines, - the 2.2dci and the V6 have monstrous torque figures, which I'm sure accounts for a good deal of the tyre-wear.

Also - and this goes for any Espace - the roadholding is so good, that you find yourself going around corners or twisted roads somewhat faster than you would dare in most of the competition.

At work we have Zafiras, and Picassos, and they certainly don't give me the same amount of confidence.  The Picasso I find downright dangerous, as I cannot see anything out of the the front quarter of the car, due to fat pillars. The Zafiras have huge bodyroll, and you have the typical Opel/Vauxhaul "total absense of feel for the road" through the steeringwheel.

No, I certainly love my Espace too - even if I should fit tyres somewhat more often than other cars. It truely is a minor expense, all things considered.

So I will join you and say:"Espace, because it is worth it!"  :-)

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
smouty
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2007, 10:16:00 am »

I thought I would re visit this topic as I have some further info.
I had another pair of front tyres fitted yesterday  Roll Eyes at a local tyre outlet and checked the alignment chart on their wall.

It appears that their list is ordered like so.

Renault Espace V6 1991-1997  4.8' +/- .8'
Renault Espace      1998-2002  0.0

My espace is an early JE V6 '98. I'm wondering if the dealer had used the V6 figures as it was set to approx. 4'.
It has been adjusted to 0' and feels better and I'll keep a close eye on the tyre wear for a while.

Can anyone confirm the alignment settings for this model?
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