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Author Topic: [SOLVED] Rear Left Door Blocked  (Read 4293 times)
e.space.3
Jr. Member
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Posts: 44



« on: October 26, 2010, 01:50:49 pm »

Hello

The door does not open from inside or outside, or from electric motor.
I managed to take off the panel. Partially removed the dust insulation. It was removed before, in the same area,  because it was sealed with self adhesive tape.
So someone fixed the problem before, without breaking the door.
I managed to touch the electric motor, to remove the power plug. I pulled a few levers inside the door. But nothing happens.

How do I open the door without destroying it?
Or is there a minimally invasive solution. Something like:
 "We should not break the entire door. Just break the handle, the door opens, and after that change the handle with new one, much cheaper and easier ??!?!?!"

There is something magic to pull?
Matra had something in mind for such situations when designed the car?

Anybody can help me Huh  Cry

RoyforMatra..... please !!!!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 02:41:32 am by e.space.3 » Logged

1999 JE0N F4R A 700 RXE
jack daniels
Sr. Member
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Posts: 132



« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 08:41:33 pm »

sounds like you have a damaged cable in the door opening.
take off the connector, peel back the rubber boot and take a look.

if that is the cause, then it's best to take out the whole loom from the door and replace the wires that are broken. Put the joins inside the door because there is no room for them in the door opening itself.

The door may be locked now. If you find the 2 wires to the door lock actuator and apply 12v, the lock actuator should go to unlock, if it's working.
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Espace, Grand (magnifique, formidable, grandiose, considérable, noble, ample) III  
2002   JE02   F4R  DP0   2.0L 16v auto
e.space.3
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 44



« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 11:55:31 pm »

Thank you
Jack Daniels

I suspected a mechanical failure and not an electric one. I've unplugged intentionally the actuator not to be forced, and destroyed when central locking/unlocking is triggered.
I have restricted opening the door from inside (children) before the fault pop up. Otherwise I could open the door from inside and find the nature of the problem.

What you suggest is to apply 12V to the correct pair of wires and if actuator is functional the door will be unlocked? Great !!!! (but if isn't ? Grrrrrrrrrr!)

I can cut the actuator cable and use its plug and put there 12V.




Great, Jack Daniels you light my hope. Thank you!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 01:05:55 am by e.space.3 » Logged

1999 JE0N F4R A 700 RXE
jack daniels
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 132



« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 09:53:14 am »

instead of cutting the wires as you have illustrated, you may be able to fit test cables with small crocodile clips directly to the lock actuator contacts.
    I use a cigarett lighter fitting with loose wires on the end to supply 12v for testing.

the contact in the door opening is not constructed to be opened and repaired so you'll need to disasemble it carefully and prize open each crimp. Then crimp in new wires. If there are any that are brittle but not yet broken you may need to consider replacing those too.

In fact, you should just be able to pull or push the atuator rod in or out to lock or unlock it without applying 12v.
this wont damage the atuator.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 09:57:21 am by jack daniels » Logged

Espace, Grand (magnifique, formidable, grandiose, considérable, noble, ample) III  
2002   JE02   F4R  DP0   2.0L 16v auto
e.space.3
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 44



« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 10:55:08 am »


In fact, you should just be able to pull or push the actuator rod in or out to lock or unlock it without applying 12v.
this wont damage the actuator.

I managed to move up and down the rod inside the door, linked to actuator, that move external door handle, up and down, but nothing happens.

This is bad.... I guess  Huh
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1999 JE0N F4R A 700 RXE
jack daniels
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 132



« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 07:56:39 pm »

there maybe something inside the door near the lock actuator that you can push or pull to open the door.
use a telescopic mirror and a flashlight

you could allways dismantle the door on the other side and see if you can spot any differences.

try to open it from the outside when you are testing incase the childproof setting is on.

give the door a good push each time you test it in case its only kind of glued shut on the door seal.
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Espace, Grand (magnifique, formidable, grandiose, considérable, noble, ample) III  
2002   JE02   F4R  DP0   2.0L 16v auto
colin4255
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 119



« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 12:51:09 am »

These doors do get 'stuck' on the seals. In summer especially, mine both can take some opening. Surely if you can get the panel loose on the inside, the catch and latch themselves are mechanical so you should be able to find some way of getting the latch open from the inside, while someone pulls the door from outside?
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roy4matra
YaBB God
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Posts: 869



« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2010, 05:38:13 pm »

Hello

The door does not open from inside or outside, or from electric motor.
I managed to take off the panel. Partially removed the dust insulation. It was removed before, in the same area,  because it was sealed with self adhesive tape.
So someone fixed the problem before, without breaking the door.
I managed to touch the electric motor, to remove the power plug. I pulled a few levers inside the door. But nothing happens.

How do I open the door without destroying it?
Or is there a minimally invasive solution. Something like:
 "We should not break the entire door. Just break the handle, the door opens, and after that change the handle with new one, much cheaper and easier ??!?!?!"

There is something magic to pull?
Matra had something in mind for such situations when designed the car?

Anybody can help me Huh  Cry

RoyforMatra..... please !!!!


You have tackled the problem the correct way.  When a door won't open from inside or outside you have to remove the interior trim fully, so you can get at the mechanisms to release them manually.

Obviously you have a locking mechanism which simply blocks the normal release from moving, and releasing the catch.  So you need to make sure this is in the unlocked position first.  Then you can move the catch manually to release the catch, and open the door.  Unfortunately the first time you try to do any of this, you won't understand exactly how the mechanisms work, and since they are in an awkward place to see easily or access them, it becomes almost impossible.  So you really need to see a working one, to understand it, and then you will be able to work on the one in the stuck door.

Once you understand exactly what you are trying to move, and which way, it is often a few seconds work to move it to unlocked and release the catch.

So one option is to strip the other door trim off, and watch the mechanisms carefully whilst you operate them - lock/unlock, and release it as many times as necessary so you understand how it works.  Then you can open the stuck door.

One final thought - the actual catch has to rotate around the anchor pin to release the door.  I have seen these so corroded or gummed up that although the mechanism is released, they would not rotate freely to open the door.  I used plenty of releasing spray and had to apply lots of constant pressure on the door to get the catch to rotate.

Roy
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e.space.3
Jr. Member
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Posts: 44



« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 09:23:37 am »

Thank you Roy,  Smiley



One final thought - the actual catch has to rotate around the anchor pin to release the door.  I have seen these so corroded or gummed up that although the mechanism is released, they would not rotate freely to open the door.  I used plenty of releasing spray and had to apply lots of constant pressure on the door to get the catch to rotate.


I have watched the mechanism, without strip, of the other door (just a brief preview).
And I saw the catch is rotating unnatural slowly. There is grease but is "gummed". I think this is the problem.

Asap I will spray the rest of "slowly working" mechanisms to prevent blocking, especially is colder outside, and grease tend to become gummed.

And regarding the stuck door, I didn't do this job before, but I think is appropriate to spray from outside Huh

Thank you all  Smiley

I'll be back with news
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1999 JE0N F4R A 700 RXE
e.space.3
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 44



« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 02:40:46 am »

Remove speaker cover




Pull out plastic triangle



Remove carefully handle ornament



Use a lever and a piece of wood/plastic to sustain the lever and lift the window crank



There are 4 torx screws:
First, very easy to unscrew, after little cap was removed.


And the rest. The one with purple arrow, if the door is stuck, is a little trickier to

unscrew. There isn't enough room to use a torx key or torx screwdriver, you will need to use

a thin and long, ordinary  screwdriver. (like stanley screwdriver in the pictures). All of

this after chair in the cabin was removed.



Dust protection butchered and "sealed" by previous owner.


And here the magical solution.
Both of my rear doors had protection for children, activated. If it was deactivated, door

would have been opened, with no problems, from the inside, even actuator was defective.  But

it was activated.  Tongue

Ok back to our image, you will see a purple arrow, indicating the actuator rubber bellows.


All you have to do is move this down with a screwdriver.And after that you can open the door from the outside.



It is obvious something blocked actuator to move freely. After I investigate the problem I found the white plastic cover is hited by one of the rods and can not slide to the end. In this position, the actuator does not ascend nor descend, even if it gets 12v. I cut the plastic in that area. Now mechanism operate freely.


Mechanism is full of gummed grease, dust, rust, all of this adding load to the electric motor.








Shiny !!!


ATENTION !!
After all pieces are fitted on the door, you have to tweak this, otherwise central locking won't lock this door.
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1999 JE0N F4R A 700 RXE
jack daniels
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 132



« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 08:51:40 pm »

these are good photos. This is nice to know for when my doors stop working.
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Espace, Grand (magnifique, formidable, grandiose, considérable, noble, ample) III  
2002   JE02   F4R  DP0   2.0L 16v auto
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