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Author Topic: 2.2 DCI start problems (Solved)  (Read 12164 times)
Sommerby
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Spaceship Pilot


« on: November 19, 2010, 04:35:47 pm »

Hi there.
My 2.2 DCI will not start.  For some time I have had periodic start problems and it's now getting worse.

When it's starting it starts and runs perfectly. When it will not start the engine start motor turns the engine Ok but the engine do not ignite.
Start gas do not help. The engine just ignite a little on the gas but  do not start.

After many attempst it suddenly starts perfectly.


Reading through this exelent forum, results in that I have booked a time at a workshop where I will get the TDC sensor replaced as a starting point.
Hopefully this will cure my problem.

Any better ideas?  

I hope very much that the car is startable on Sunday since I will have to drive 1000 km in order to pick up my christmas present, an 100% original  Alfasud from 1983 with a milage on only 35.000km   Smiley
Best Regards
Bo  
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 07:18:30 pm by Sommerby » Logged

Best Regards
Bo
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2010, 05:20:23 pm »

I was thinking fuel pressure, but TDC sensor is probably a good start and I don't know much anyway about these engines.
Sounds like a nice christmas present. It's not this one, is it? Grin

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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Sommerby
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Spaceship Pilot


« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2010, 05:32:55 pm »

Hi Anders.

Here it is:  

It's been standing in a garage all the time (or it would have been looking like the photo you attached:-)  

Cabin is like a new, seat covers from new.  

Only drawback is a bit of corrosion on the wheel arches, and I will have to replace camshaftbelts and service belts, since they are still the originals from 1983.

Sorry guys, I went a bit off topic
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Best Regards
Bo
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2010, 06:02:06 pm »

Fantastic!

Even the white resin spacer on the doorlock is - white! I think we all remember these cars. I think they were quite underrated? Why on earth was it stored away for so long?

I assume the Espace will still be the daily driver for the family! Smiley

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Sommerby
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Posts: 96


Spaceship Pilot


« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2010, 07:16:34 pm »

Anders, Yes, right now the espace will not start at all and I need it on Sunday as locomotive for the auto trailer :-( so I will see if I can get a TDC sensor somewhere tomorrow and try to do it my self.

The Alfasud is owned by an old lady who bought it in 1983. She has no longer a driving license due to her age.  I am only allowed to buy the car because I promised  her to keep it 100% original.

There is not one single scratch or dent on the car.

Except from the replacement of the rear wheel arches and replacement of the belts, I will keep it exactly as it is.   It will be stored in my garage and only be driven a few times  during the summer.

The Alfasud gives a pleasure of driving that I have never found equal in another car. Difficult to explain, but if you ever try one on a twisty country road you will understand :-)

« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 07:22:03 pm by Sommerby » Logged

Best Regards
Bo
renaultbiler
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2010, 06:03:34 pm »

Bo, have you checked the wiring behind the generator, two cable looms passes the AC pipe and generator bracket and on these they tend to rub the wiring causing the injector control cables (one or more) shorting to ground (shorting is however a wrong expression since these cables are ground side on injectors, but computer is supposed to do this so it shuts down)

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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
Sommerby
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Spaceship Pilot


« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2010, 09:50:12 pm »

Bo, have you checked the wiring behind the generator, two cable looms passes the AC pipe and generator bracket and on these they tend to rub the wiring causing the injector control cables (one or more) shorting to ground (shorting is however a wrong expression since these cables are ground side on injectors, but computer is supposed to do this so it shuts down)



Many thanks for this suggestion. I will check if the wiring looks Ok tomorrow morning.

Best Regards
Bo
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Best Regards
Bo
roy4matra
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 08:58:43 pm »

Hi there.
My 2.2 DCI will not start.  For some time I have had periodic start problems and it's now getting worse.

As there are so many things that could cause this, we really need more information and you really should get a diagnostics done first - not go jumping at conclusions like getting a TDC sensor which might be nothing to do with the problem.  Once you have the fault codes that will give you a clue to where your problem lies.

Also when was the filter last changed?  These can cause intermittent difficult starting if dirty and since they have long change intervals I have seen vehicles that only needed a new filter to start properly!  Bear in mind that one of these common rail diesels needs around 200 bar pressure just to start and usually idle with around 300 bar if correct.  Full pressure on the road can be as high as 1400 bar.

You may have one injection leaking pressure away, or a low pressure pump failing, or poor heater plugs, or electrical problems or...  You see the problem?

If you fit a new TDC sensor yourself it MUST be fitted so that it is touching the flywheel.  Do not back it away thinking it cannot be right for a stationary part to be touching a rotating one.  It IS the correct way.

One other problem - has the TDC sensor modification been done in the past?  If it has the new one may be a straight fit, but if not, you may have a plug and socket that do not match.  Both wires in the loom to the sensor connection are the same white colour BUT the sensor is polarity conscious so be careful.  Get them wrong and it definitely won't start!

Roy
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Sommerby
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Spaceship Pilot


« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2010, 05:17:53 pm »

Many thanks for your replies so far.
Renaultbiler: I can't see any kind of damage on the wireing so in my case this do not seems to be the issue.
Roy: I changed the filter half a year ago so I assume that this is not an issue. Heater plugs were replaced for 2 years ago so I do not suspect those.
Regarding getting a diagnostic I have had bad experiences when I look back in time. Last time I had a problem, the Renault workshop ran a diagnostic and concluded that I chould replace the hight pressure pump, the 4 injectors and the related hight pressure pipingsystem. I insisted on a leak test of the injectors instead and I found that one of the injectors were leaking 4 times as much as the others. It ended up with a 300 euro expence to fix the problem. If i had followed the workshop advice the cost of the repair would have been astronomic. If the workshop had experiend people like you, i would not hesitate to get the car checked out.
Anyhow the car has now been starting perfectly for the last coupple of weeks. The TDC sensor is laying at my desk, waiting for getting in action when the problem is there again. I'm not sure if the TDC sensor wireing has been modified, but many thanks for your advice, if it turn up that I need to modify the wireing myself.
Best Regards
Bo
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Best Regards
Bo
roy4matra
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 03:06:26 pm »


Roy: I changed the filter half a year ago so I assume that this is not an issue. Heater plugs were replaced for 2 years ago so I do not suspect those.

Never assume anything!  New parts can be faulty, just as much as old.  I can name loads of occasions when it was the new part that was causing the problem.  It takes such a short time to check the heater plugs that it is not even worth considering NOT to check them.  Pull each lead off and then use an ohmmeter to check the resistances.  They should measure around 1 ohm.  If not replace them.  The air filter would have to be really bad to cause starting problems.

Quote
Regarding getting a diagnostic I have had bad experiences when I look back in time...

I don't doubt this, but all you need is the diagnostic printout.  You book it for a diagnostic only, so you can see the fault codes and sub-codes AND nothing else.  You make them aware that is all you want. (if they don't want to do it, you know straight away their work is likely to be suspect or they are simply after your money)  A diagnostic should cost no more than half an hour.  Then you have something to guide you to where the problem lies.  Without it you (and we) are in the dark.

If you pass the codes on, I can check them out and give you an idea where to check.

Roy
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Sommerby
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Spaceship Pilot


« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 07:22:02 pm »

It seems that I have been lucky. After the replacement of the TDC sensor, the car has started perfectly every time :-)

The replacement was a 2 minute job, when the car is raised on a lift.

Many thanks for all the replies. This is indeed a excellent forum.

Best Regards
Bo
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Best Regards
Bo
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