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Author Topic: strange over heating problem?  (Read 18703 times)
ESPACED
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Posts: 41


« on: January 09, 2011, 11:09:48 pm »

Hi Guys..
Happy New Year.
OK .This is ready strange and I can’t work it out, sorry if its long winded..
Espace 2.2 TD 1998  engine rebuild completely about 2 years now..
I am London based and I went up to Leicester.. on the way up the espace was getting a little hot so I change my speed and that seem to do the trick.. on the way back I put the air con on as the engine seems to get a little hot again.. got back without overheating..
Took it to my mechanic (don’t work on cars in winter to cold) and asked him to check it all over..
The thermostat / radiator and temp switch / heater matrixes are all new by the way, I had noticed that the rad cap was the wrong colour (should be brown) and I asked him to change it in case this was the cause of the hot engine which he did.
Mechanic ran the car for most of the day and it was fine.. that night I drove it home and it over heated??   Switched the engine off checked under the bonnet and all the pipes looked as if they were going to burst, ran the mechanic up and told him.. I wasn’t far from home so I switched the engine on to see if I could get the car home and  funny enough it  seemed ok to drive the temp had come down and all seemed well?
Saturday checked for water, it needed a little, my son plays football in the morning at Borehamwood FC..  45min drive on the way there the heaters were not working (cold air) and the car over heated again, I had to switch off the engine (please note as soon as it hits the red I do stop.) checked the pipes and they seem to what to explode..  I restarted after maybe 2 mins. And again all OK and the heaters this time were working well? drove all the way there and back with no problem at all and the temp was 4 bars.
What is going on??? Is it a faulty thermostat? Or even the heater switch that starts the fan?
Why do the heaters in the car work some times and other times don’t
It could be more that 1 thing and the heaters may be an air block but the overheating of the engine whenever it feels like??
Any ideas guys i would be grateful for any ideas why this is happening and how to put right

Best regards
Tony
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colin4255
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Posts: 119



« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 11:20:16 am »

Assuming you have no water in the oil or oil in the water system (easy to check as you would see a kind of pale cream sludge on the dipstick of the oil, and some gunge in the expansion tank (water), then its highly likely you have an air lock in your water system.  These things  do need bleeding when you remove a lot of water to do things like fix a radiator, or work on the engine. It is just possible you have an air lock.  OR, it could easily be that one of the water pipes possibly to the heater has collapsed, partially blocking the water system.  No heat from the heater means no water is circulating to it.  Pressure build-up like you describe is bad, potentially dangerous and also a sign that something is blocked or being partially blocked. 

Personally, I would drain the system, flush the water system and radiator, and irrespective of whther the mechanic thinks they are working, fit a new thermostat immediately, then re-fill and completely and properly bleed all the air from the system and see what happens.

If you keep driving it like this will definitely kill the engine!
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BrianM
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 09:12:52 pm »

You are losing water. Check for a drip at the fromt of the engine to see if it is the water pump. Check the footwells inside the car in case it is one of the heater matrixs. Have the coolant tested for carbons in case it is the head. Top it up & leave the cap off leave it running & see if you get a build up of air pushing out the coolant from the filler. If so then it is the head.
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ESPACED
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Posts: 41


« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 09:41:31 pm »

thanks for the replys guys..
no water is escaping from anywhere unless as steam from the expantion tank and we do not have cream..  I drove it and no sign of  over heating today but the heaters did not work as if the thermostat was stuck open..
I found out that the thermostat and rad fan switch were bought from Euro-parts... have re-ordered parts from Renault as i do not trust parts from Euro-parts.. and I let you know of outcome.. i hope it will be good news..
as for the heaters not working, your maybe right might have an air block now but will only find out once the parts have been replaced and system bleed..
Many thanks
Tony
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jack daniels
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Posts: 132



« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 04:54:47 pm »

I bought a trico thermostat a while ago that didn't work as it should. After e-mailing Trico they confirmed that it was wrongly listed in the catalog and wasn't for my vehicle at all. Sounds like you could have air in the system, I've found that the best way to get the air out of my petrol motor is just to drive it. We have some steep ascents and descents where I live, that combined with some sideways g force gets the air to the top pretty quick.
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Espace, Grand (magnifique, formidable, grandiose, considérable, noble, ample) III  
2002   JE02   F4R  DP0   2.0L 16v auto
BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 09:33:48 pm »

if the thermostat is not working correctly then the temp gauge will stay low for a long time, may not even get to 3 bars. If you have 2 or 3 bars then you should have heat in the car unles you have no water in either matrix or the blend motor controler is up the swanney. Do you hear the motors move when you switch from hot to cold?
You only get overheating when you get too hot because the radiator  fan is not working, loss of coolant due to a leak or the head gasket is on its way out!
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 09:41:13 pm »

...or poor performance of the water pump due to fault.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
ESPACED
Jr. Member
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Posts: 41


« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 10:28:29 pm »

 Smiley
Hi all..
Sorted
had the mechanic fit the Renault parts to day.. (Thermostat and the temp switch)
all working well..
Heaters working as they should and engine temp 3 bars going on 4 then back to 3 when the fan kicks in..
Happy .... not half...
 Thank you everyone for your input..
And may that be a lesson..  Always use decent parts....and try using Renault parts if you can..
I won’t be using Euro-parts again

best reagrds
Tony Grin
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colin4255
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2011, 12:30:03 am »

Glad you got it sorted in the end.

Rgds
Colin4255
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ESPACED
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Posts: 41


« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2011, 03:40:34 pm »

Hi guys
Back to the drawing board..
Car been fine for 2 weeks now and everything has been working as it should even sitting in traffic ... but yesterday coming down the M1 doing about 70 car over heated again...the RAC worked on it for an hour testing  and getting rid of any air locks and I drove home.. All OK..
The RAC said it may be a blockage of dirt in the system and I should take the thermostat out put a good quality water flush and run the car for 2 weeks and then put it all back.. (I don’t think it is but I need to do it to eliminate the possibility)
This morning even before I turned the engine over i took the cap of the expansion tank and the pressure threw the water out HuhHuh?
So I started her up opened the air valves up and put water and went out, all seems OK..
I will flush the car but I can see this being the main problem
Does anyone have any ideas why this is happening..
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jack daniels
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Posts: 132



« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2011, 09:45:15 pm »

what is the history of servicing for the cooling system for this vehicle?

how many times has it been drained and flushed?
what type of coolant was used?
what mixture ratio?
have different coolants ever been mixed in this system?
does the heater work ok on both sides?
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Espace, Grand (magnifique, formidable, grandiose, considérable, noble, ample) III  
2002   JE02   F4R  DP0   2.0L 16v auto
ESPACED
Jr. Member
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Posts: 41


« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2011, 10:09:37 pm »

Hi Jack
System has been flushed many times.. as I had it flushed to try and get the heater matrix unblocked ended up replacing both heater matrix.. the car was working like a dream..
Heaters on both sides sending heat that would melt cheese on toast..
What I can’t answer is the mixture of coolant.. BUT yesterday when it over headed we had to replace quite a lot of water so the mixture would be weak, why this morning when the engine had not even been turned over should the pressure be so much that when the cap was removed the water was pushed out? and the car had stood over night
cant understa
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colin4255
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Posts: 119



« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2011, 10:25:05 pm »

It means that your water system is pressurising itself and then staying like that. There can be quite a few reasons for this.  When a thermostat sticks, assuming it sticks closed, its actually keeping water in the engine where it gets very hot  and pressurises instead of circulating around the car.  Tne actual idea of a themostat is to do exactly that until the water reaches a termperature at which wax inside the thermostat melts, allowing it to open and circulate the water. The idea to speed up warming up of the engine.  If its not a stuck thermostat, it could be an air lock in the system.  It could be a blocked radiator. It could be a partially collapsed water hose, but while that may explain the intermittent nature of the fault, I doubt a collapsed hose would cause the car to retain presure to tha textent overnight, unless you also have the wrong expansion tank cap on the car.  I would look for a blockage, or if a lot of work has been done, maybe a metal hose section has been bent or crushed?  There are a few of those on the car.  Are you sure the new heater matrix is OK? Did anyone test running water through it before fitting?

Also, do you have the right cap on the expansion tank? They all have different pressure ratings. Check with a Renault dealer to make sure the cap is the right one for you car. I'd replace it anyway seeing as you are having so much trouble.
It could be you have aleaking head gasket even... Its hard to say without stripping stuff down, but I would exhaust all the other possibilities first.. Good luck with it

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renaultbiler
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2011, 11:53:05 pm »

To me it sounds like an intermittent sirculation problem, could be the water pump being loose on its shaft.
Or a leaking head gasket, building up abnormal pressure in the system.
I would assume no hoses or pipes have been interchanged after work on the vehicle... (dont know if its even possible on this one)
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
ESPACED
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 41


« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2011, 11:55:33 pm »

Hi Colin,
heater matrix were working OK for over 6 months
cap is the correct one ( brown top).. radiator is new..
I'm going to remove the themostat which is new and from Renaults.. and see how it work with out it, because this is driving me mad.
this should be a simple problem to fix but I can't seem to find the cause..
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