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Author Topic: Best engine for Grand Espace (JE)  (Read 6345 times)
Mogens
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« on: September 05, 2006, 11:30:34 am »

 I want to buy a Grand Espace, since my present car is to small and I have 4 kids. I have decided to buy a Grand Espace (JE). There are several possibilities regarding engine, and it would be nice to draw one your experience. At present we drive approx. 20000 km pr year. I am anxious to get your recommendation regarding both power (enough power for 6 pers. and luggage) and durability of the various engines.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2006, 02:12:11 pm »

Most will probably say 2.2 DCI as it has both economy and power. But at 20.000 km's per year it may be more economical to buy a petrol car, at least here in Denmark. The 2.0 petrol is ok especially in the 16V version, but it will not be a fast car (you will have 1800 kgs of car plus passengers and luggage, powered by a 140 hp engine).

If you have the possibility of registering the car as a company car (firmabilordning) it may be beneficial to buy a V6 24v automatic as the prices on those are underrated (unless you run into one with a 'liebhaver pris'). Tax people know this and rates the 24V's ok here in Denmark if you want to import your self.

For durability the 2.2 DTI (pre-2000) is better than the DCI - this was the early years of the technology and there are rather many problems with them. Bearings in the turbos of the 2.2 DCI's are known to be weak and can cause a complete blow up of the engine if it fails. If I was to buy a DCI, I'd probably want to replace the turbo.

This is from what I have heard from people around the country (Denmark). My web page at http://dinsen.net/espace is down right now, but expected to be up again later this week.

If you feel you need more info, please followup here!

Mvh
Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Mogens
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2006, 04:44:02 pm »

Is the V6 the most durable engine ? an hvow much more petrol does this large engine conpared to the smaller engines use.
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Will Falconer
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2006, 09:13:36 pm »

I'm in two minds about this:

I hate diesels - smell, noise, pollution etc. - but having driven a 24v Grand Espace for the last 100,000Km I can't help feeling that the engine never really gets the chance to use its power in the large and relatively unwieldy Espace.

But would a diesel be more economical? I get 25+mpg - sorry I don'y know the km/litre equivalent - but I understand that diesel Espaces don't improve much on that.

So I remember that the company that built it won Le Mans using 3.0 litre engines and that's good enough for me. I think it's also the fastest road-going Matra Smiley
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2006, 09:49:01 pm »

Will, just keep the pedal to the floor (ALL the way) and keep it there! Let the gearbox run it all the way out. Uhhh the sound! An acceleration. Very useful on a German motorway when you want to get out quickly from a "Raststätte" since the car almost goes off like a rocket. Or so it feels. It get's you safely back in the traffic.

Avantime was faster though! And Murena S very close (and quicker acceleration)

Anyway: 25 mpg sounds high to me as it's more than 10.5 km/l - is that measured on the board computer? What octane petrol are you running, Will? In city traffic and on motorways I never get more than 9 km/l. Usually 8.

To Mogens: The 2.0 petrol was slightly better for us as it ran around 10 - 11 km/l.

Lennart: We want to hear you appraise the DCI now! Cheesy
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Will Falconer
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2006, 12:30:09 am »

Sorry, I forgot about the Avantime being faster...

I got nearly 26mpg going to Limoges and back in August, that's a mix of 110/130kph and 90kph roads and no traffic jams, 5 people and some luggage.  That's according to the on board computer and using 95 ron unleaded.

I agree with Anders that on really fast roads the 24v is excellent - it enjoys cruising at very high speed...
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2006, 08:49:23 am »

Sorry, I forgot about the Avantime being faster...

Just don't let it happen again! ;-D

Quote
I got nearly 26mpg going to Limoges and back in August, that's a mix of 110/130kph and 90kph roads and no traffic jams, 5 people and some luggage.  That's according to the on board computer and using 95 ron unleaded.

I wouldn't really trust the computer it seems to be on the too optimistic side - as I don't have it enabled on my car I count it by tanking. Have you tried comparing the readouts from the computer with actual measurements?

It could be that I'm just too fast on the pedal though........

- Anders Cool
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Mogens
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2006, 01:26:35 pm »

I have calculated the conversion factor from MPG to Km/l

0,35*MPG=KM/L 
e.g
25 MPG * 0.35 = 8.75 Km/l
8.75 km/l * 2.86 = 25 MPG
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JE2002
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2006, 07:25:16 pm »

Hello all,

Both petrol and diesel engines have strengths and weaknesses.
For longer drives I prefer diesel engine due to its reliability and
alternative cost effective fuel options.

Kind regards  Smiley,
Boris
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2006, 08:29:26 pm »

Lennart: We want to hear you appraise the DCI now! Cheesy

Sorry, I have been too busy to check the forum. However, I did manage to delete a stylesheet, which caused the whole thing to look decidedly odd for 12 hours :-)

Yes Anders, as you expect me to say, - the 2.2 dci is a WONDERFUL engine, - however it is a cruiser, not a particular racy engine.

But having said that, its fantastic amount of power (130hp/290Nm) - does embarras many cars at the redlights :-)

AND, contrary to popular belief, it is so quiet that at most speeds you have hardly any noise but from the tyres.

My car is btw not a "Grand", - but a regular 2002 JE, which gives me a little less weight - measured at 1660kg including driver and 5 seats - and half tank.



However, I don't get to drive it much, as it is my wifes daily car, - and I have to make do with my Murena :-)

My wife only drives 2km to and from work, plus a little shopping etc - and only occationally do we drive more than 100km in one go.  This also means we hardly ever fill it up (!)

This of course has a huge inpact on economy, but using the dashboard odometer and the amount of fuel we pour into it, it still obtains at least 12km/l. Using:

  http://onlineconversion.com/

this is approx 35 mpg.

This is quite far from the dashboard computers very pessimistic 9-10 l/100km. These are known to be quite inaccurate, and apparently ours gets it 15-20% wrong on the pessimistic side.

On a few occations, we have done a somewhat longer trip immediately after filling up, and then the indicated average is more like 8, which if corrected by the 15-20% inaccuracy should make it possible to average 40 mpg (~14 km/l) - provided we did such decent length trips for a full tank. But as it is, we don't.

On straight motorways, at a constant 110km/h (GPS) it will show 5-6 l/100km - which assuming the 15-20% still is correct at these low readings, should mean that it hardly uses any fuel at all (above 50 mpg) - but of course all cars do well at constant speeds.

Despite the inaccuracy, the dashboard "real-time" readout is very usefull for reminding you that your right foot really determines everything :-)

btw - chiptuning like this:
( http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenblatt-s/renault-espace-22dci-130ps-290nm.html )
will bring it to 160hp/341Nm, but I don't know about neither economy nor reliability of such chiptuned engines.


In the UK, diesel is not much cheaper than petrol (if at all?), so there the economic reasoning only comes down to the better mileage - but I would still recommend it for the torque and relaxed driving.


Another good reason for running diesel is of course the perspective of a world producing bio-diesel from stuff NOT out of Saudi Arabia.
Diesel cars also produce less CO2, which would be another buzz-word reason for promoting them. The particle issue still remains to be proven more ulhealthy than the petrol exhaust fumes even with catalythic converters.

However, at least here in Denmark, the politicians are holding back, - presumeably because they are highly influenced by the almighty oil-companies. So they impose  higher import tax, higher fuel tax, and higher road-tax for diesel cars.

Would you believe that Denmark is among the largest producers of biodiesel, yet we cannot buy a single drop in Denmark ! - it is all exported to Germany I believe.
We really are silly.


/Lennart
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 09:34:17 pm by Lennart Sorth » Logged

Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
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