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Author Topic: Windscreen washer problem  (Read 6462 times)
stropley
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« on: October 04, 2006, 11:58:02 pm »

Hi,
the windscreen washers aren't working on my 1995 Helios 2.0 petrol.
I have just bought the car and am sorting out all the electrical niggles that the previous owner was obviously happy to live with.

After checking the washer problem wasn't just a fuse, I removed all the air filter gubbins to access the motors &  wiring. Putting a tester on the plugs shows 13v to one and 4.5v to the other when the washers are activated. But when wired up, the motors don't work.

It seems a coincidence for both motors to go at once - and it passed an MOT in August. Has anyone had a similar experience?

Chris

1997 Honda VFR750
1996 Mitsi FTO GPX
1995 Espace Helios
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2006, 12:33:53 pm »

I'm not really sure how the system works on the J63... but it really sounds like the motors are gone. The cheapest solution is to buy a standard inline pump and let that drive the washers in serial with the original non working pumps. I don't know about english MoT'ers, but I don't remember here in Denmark to have the washers tested on any of my cars during our tests...

- Anders
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'01 Grand Espace 24v
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Martin Tyas
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2006, 09:14:03 pm »

Had you not got power to the electrical connections for the pumps I would have suggested that it may be a problem with the connections or contacts within the wiper stalk.... after all it is the only other moving part except for the pumps.... but then only 4.5volts to one of them doesn't seem right and worth checking out further.

Have you checked for sludge/sediment in the bottom of the washer bottle.... just in case the previous owner hasn't been too careful when topping up or has been using something other proper screen wash that has blocked the pumps?

You could try running a 12 volt supply straight from the battery to each of the pumps in turn (after first checking the polarity as the pumps have small impellers that are designed to rotate in one specific direction).... but before doing so I'd also remove the washer pipes from the pumps in the unlikely event that the problem is with blockages in the pipes or washer nozzles.... it is very unlikely that both pipes would be blocked but then it's also a strange coincidence, or very unlucky, that both pumps could fail at the same time. It takes a relatively small particle of debris to block the washer nozzle and that would create sufficient back pressure to stop the pumps.

Anyway, maybe worth trying before buying two new pumps because if you then find that the pumps are not the problem they are likely to be yours anyway because most dealers will not accept the return of any electrical items... especially when they are unlikely to have been in dealer stock and would have been specially ordered from Renault.

Martin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
stropley
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2006, 10:03:49 pm »

Thanks for your replies Guys, I was worried about the pumps being expensive and that's whhy I sought some advice first. However, I did a search on eBay today and brand new pumps are on offer for GBP7.50 including postage. How cheap is that?
I agree that the pumps sound the likely offenders so I'll order one of these eBay units to test it out. There only seems to be a hole in the tailgate where the rear washer nozzle should be, so I'm in no hurry to get the rear washers working.

Thank you Anders for letting me know my model is a J63 - I did wonder what everyone was on about before. You'll make an enthusiast of me yet  Smiley

Regards
Chris 

1997 Honda VFR750
1996 Mitsi FTO GPX
1995 Espace Helios
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2006, 10:28:23 pm »

Thank you Anders for letting me know my model is a J63

heh - it's all here:
    http://www.matrasport.info/Cars/Espace/history.html

I used to have a J63 ( http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Espace/Gallery1/Med/dscn2330.html )
but never had any washer problems.

The only problem in that area was getting new wipers with decently functioning on-wiper nozzles for the washers.

Some of the aftermarket wipers have an appauling cigarshaped thingy in the middle, which cannot possibly cover the windscreen at all.

I thus modified new wipers to take the old nozzle-rail, and was a happy man :-)

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
Martin Tyas
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2006, 02:36:18 pm »

However, I did a search on eBay today and brand new pumps are on offer for GBP7.50 including postage. How cheap is that?

Genuine Renault pumps are available from Euro Car Parts http://www.eurocarparts.co.uk/ at 9.99 GBP and non-genuine are 5.99 GBP.... both prices exclude VAT.

Martin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
stropley
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2006, 10:49:57 am »

Hi everyone

I received the pump from eBay and fitted it. It made a pumping noise but still no water came out. I traced this to blocked non-return valves which are in line and sit around where the PAS reservoir is. These were replced with a couple from a local motor factors for a pound each and hey presto, fully functioning washers!

I reckon that, when the valves clogged up, the previous owner just kept trying the washers till she burnt the motors out  Roll Eyes

All's well that ends well - at least the car will now drive OK and pass an MOT. I'm just left with the following list of maladies, some of which, I'm sure, fellow J63 owners will be familiar with:

1. Blower only works on fastest speed
2. Passenger front window regulator needs replacing 'cos the bit that holds the glass up has rusted away to nothing.
3. No reversing lights
4. Rusty fuel filler flap - why didn't they galvanise this as well?
5. Left indicator doesn't self-cancel
6. Driver's door only works off central locking when it feels like it.
7. Rear washer jet missing (how are you meant to get hold of the pipe?)
8. Wheelbrace/jack handle missing
9. Speedo needle wavers so much between 20-40mph that town speed cameras make me even more nervous than usual.
10. Cable from the OE roof aerial too short to fit aftermarket stereo  Huh

. . . and that's after already fixing a similar sized list  - some fixed with cures from here like the leaky sunroof, cheers.

But apart from that, it's fine  Smiley
 
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2006, 12:36:21 pm »

I reckon that, when the valves clogged up, the previous owner just kept trying the washers till she burnt the motors out  Roll Eyes

Sounds very likely - congratulations!

Quote
1. Blower only works on fastest speed

You need to strip the dash down to  the last piece, then replace the resistors in the system. It's just a full day job!

Quote
2. Passenger front window regulator needs replacing 'cos the bit that holds the glass up has rusted away to nothing.

I haven't heard about that before, but rust inside those doors is quite common as the metal frame was not galvanised. I have no idea why, though!

Quote
3. No reversing lights

The switch sits on the right side of the gearbox, wire could be broken or the switch could be failing, although I'd think it was more likely that the problem is the wire than the switch.

Quote
4. Rusty fuel filler flap - why didn't they galvanise this as well?

I HAVE NO IDEA? Why?? Very annoying.

Quote
5. Left indicator doesn't self-cancel

Could be just an adjustment problem - or a worn plastic bit.

Quote
6. Driver's door only works off central locking when it feels like it.

Electrics in Espace's has a life of its own! Probably a loose connection in a connector somewhere. Take all connectors you can get at apart, clean them and grease them well, and then put them together again.

Quote
7. Rear washer jet missing (how are you meant to get hold of the pipe?)

Hmm.... You probably have to pull it out the wrong way and then somehow put a new one inside. That's a difficult one.

Quote
8. Wheelbrace/jack handle missing
9. Speedo needle wavers so much between 20-40mph that town speed cameras make me even more nervous than usual.

Replace the speedometer cable - or refit it.

Quote
10. Cable from the OE roof aerial too short to fit aftermarket stereo  Huh
Quote

Hmm that's odd...

Quote
. . . and that's after already fixing a similar sized list  - some fixed with cures from here like the leaky sunroof, cheers.

But apart from that, it's fine  Smiley

Nothing serious.... it sounds like. An excellent car it is, indeed!
Glad you like it!

- Anders
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'01 Grand Espace 24v
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2006, 05:21:25 pm »

1. Blower only works on fastest speed
The resistor which makes for the different speeds is actually inside the airbox on the engineside of the firewall - no need to take the dash apart!
Start by dismounting the wipers, then work your way there - and beware of the relatively hidden bolts. There is a VERY good walkthrough on the german Espace-Freunde here: http://www.espace-freunde.de/modelle/j63/anleitung/widerstand/widerstand.html

IF you already dismantled the dashboard, don't dispair - replace all the lighbulbs you can get near, and you have accomplished something great. The ones in the aircon/heater panel can only be replaced this way...


5. Left indicator doesn't self-cancel

indicator stalk multifunction unit may need a good look - as Anders says, it may be adjustment.

I took mine apart, to fix the locking-mechanism for the main beam.
BEWARE, that when you open it, there will be at least two very small springs which will shoot out...  been there - spent a long time finding them on the floor - done that :-)
The self cancellation is activated through a fairly robust looking metal pin protuding from the unit.

Again, Espace-Freunde have a good page describing how to get to it, and the PDF mentioned at the bottom even shows how to take it apart and eventually repair.

6. Driver's door only works off central locking when it feels like it.
Annoying, but it is called SOUL  :-)
Check electrical connections.


10. Cable from the OE roof aerial too short to fit aftermarket stereo  Huh

I guess it could be extended, but on my Murena I got rid of the areal alltogether, and the radio works just fine. In this case, I have the cable connected, but that IS the areal - it just ends blind at the roof. This is apparently enough. Modern radios are probably more sensitive.

I have seen kits that will transform the rear window heating mesh to an areal as well, - with a capacitor to shield the radio from DC. However, try fitting a length of wire as homemade areal, - maybe a twin wire, splitted to run towards either side of the dashboard.


But apart from that, it's fine  Smiley
Thats the spirit ! :-)
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
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