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Author Topic: J63 -93 2.2L - a small list of problems/worries....!  (Read 5459 times)
pduke
Newbie
*
Posts: 15


« on: September 04, 2013, 04:11:36 pm »

hi everyone!!
first of all congratulations for your great work in this website. it has been an extreme help for me choosing the Espace i was looking for. yep, i bought this 93 baby (stuck on the borders for many years) back in june. So far it has been great. it went for a 4200 km trip through Europe from day one, with the need of changing only... oils.  Smiley

i am excited with the car so far and after living with it i begin to notice few problems which i want to share with you since you are the experts.
i made a small list for this post, i guess it is not proper opening a different post for each one. admins please correct me if i am wrong

here we go:

1. when turning the key for the first start, before ignition, i have a small leak of petrol in the engine(it smells), then after ignition the smell fades

2. i have two sounds from the front.
 -one is the driving shaft -it is a "tak tak" thing coming after turning the wheel a bit left or right-. I checked that with my engineer, he said if it doesn't bother me it will not be a problem
- the other one is very low "doop" coming probably(?) from the suspension. it is very easy to hear when driving very low speeds in the city passing over light bumps. i have no idea what can that be

3. when idle it goes up to 1.500 rpm. until yesterday i pressed the gas pedal and it would come to normal. now ...it doesn't. i guess this is the idle sensor. can somebody give tips how to clean it, or change it if needed?

4. this is ridiculous but it is a fact. the past owner instead of making me a discount he gave me 4 tires used but in very good condition. i acted as a complete idiot and didn't check the profile of the tires in comparison with the size from Renault.
now this guy has changed to 15" Renault alloy wheels and he was wearing  quite correctly 195/60 15
this scum he gave me a set of 205/65 15 bridgestone duravis r410 100T!!!!! Angry. (and me idiot i took them!!!)
without having any money left to buy new ones i put them on.
so i want an opinion. is this tire as bad as it looks for the car? are the same pressures apply? can it cause problems to the suspension?
...can i keep them...  Undecided


ok this was my small(!) -after honeymoon- list.

any thoughts,advises, opinions will be gratefully welcomed!

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mhi
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2013, 01:35:25 am »

1 - This has not happened to my car (yet), so I can't give any help.

2 - Drive shaft - no idea.
2 - Clunks from the suspension may well be caused by a rubber joint failing: my car has had several of these over the years. All the bushes and bearings in the front suspension seem to have failed over the last 2 years; can't give details because I pay my local garage to replace them. (Get your garage to check the prices from mister-auto.co.uk, carparts4less.co.uk and gsfcarparts.com -- one of my front wheel bearings, for example, cost £112 and the other "only" £22.)

3 - Unpredictable fast idle may well be caused by a tiny air leak into any of the pipes and hoses connected to the inlet manifold. Check every flexible pipe attached on that side of the engine, make sure all are properly attached at both ends and look for cracked, porous or split rubber tubes.

You may get peculiar idling if the lambda sensor (measures the concentration of oxygen in the exhaust) has failed. When mine went wrong the engine wouldn't idle at a steady speed or run at a steady low power, and I suspected all sorts of other problems. This is easy to get at for replacement; the only time I've needed one the garage charged almost £100 for the part.

There is a switch to detect that the throttle is fully closed (and therefore the engine electronics has to control the idle speed) but I don't think this switch could make the engine run too fast if it failed.

My car once came back from a garage I don't wish ever to use again with the idle air tube connected wrongly and the air intake temperature sensor flopping around on the end of its wire. (Both of these should be a push fit into the big rubber pipe coming off the side of the air filter.) I suppose if that sensor is faulty you might get problems with the idle speed.

The idle air control valve is frighteningly expensive. Mine hasn't yet failed, though. If it sticks open you'll get the same effect as an air leak, with too-fast idling.

4 - I can't give any advice about your tyres. Mine uses 195/65 R14 and I've never fitted any other size of wheel or tyre.

I am not an expert. My car has a smaller engine than yours. I may well have missed out something important and obvious!
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1994 Espace RXE 2.0 (J636)
BrianM
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 321


« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2013, 10:15:42 am »

Regards tyre size, I did an on-line lookup & here are the results
    Diameter    615mm    647.5mm
     Circumference    1932.1mm    2034.2mm
     Poke                38.2mm          81.6mm
     Inset             114.2mm    121.6mm
     Speedo error              0%    -5.02%
     Reading at 30mph    30mph    28.49mph

5% is well out of spec but as long as the car runs weel on them & they dont rub then there good for now.
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pduke
Newbie
*
Posts: 15


« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 12:34:46 pm »

1 - This has not happened to my car (yet), so I can't give any help.

2 - Drive shaft - no idea.
2 - Clunks from the suspension may well be caused by a rubber joint failing: my car has had several of these over the years. All the bushes and bearings in the front suspension seem to have failed over the last 2 years; can't give details because I pay my local garage to replace them. (Get your garage to check the prices from mister-auto.co.uk, carparts4less.co.uk and gsfcarparts.com -- one of my front wheel bearings, for example, cost £112 and the other "only" £22.)

3 - Unpredictable fast idle may well be caused by a tiny air leak into any of the pipes and hoses connected to the inlet manifold. Check every flexible pipe attached on that side of the engine, make sure all are properly attached at both ends and look for cracked, porous or split rubber tubes.

You may get peculiar idling if the lambda sensor (measures the concentration of oxygen in the exhaust) has failed. When mine went wrong the engine wouldn't idle at a steady speed or run at a steady low power, and I suspected all sorts of other problems. This is easy to get at for replacement; the only time I've needed one the garage charged almost £100 for the part.

There is a switch to detect that the throttle is fully closed (and therefore the engine electronics has to control the idle speed) but I don't think this switch could make the engine run too fast if it failed.

My car once came back from a garage I don't wish ever to use again with the idle air tube connected wrongly and the air intake temperature sensor flopping around on the end of its wire. (Both of these should be a push fit into the big rubber pipe coming off the side of the air filter.) I suppose if that sensor is faulty you might get problems with the idle speed.

The idle air control valve is frighteningly expensive. Mine hasn't yet failed, though. If it sticks open you'll get the same effect as an air leak, with too-fast idling.

4 - I can't give any advice about your tyres. Mine uses 195/65 R14 and I've never fitted any other size of wheel or tyre.

I am not an expert. My car has a smaller engine than yours. I may well have missed out something important and obvious!

this is precious information! thanx a million man! i will put it in my garage this weekend in order to give a good look at the inlet manifold and all it's peripherals. i will come back with results, probably new problems and ... solutions i hope!!
from a quick look i gave it yesterday though, i found it very hard to locate the idle valve. it is quite messy in there..
are there any designs or photos pointing the... not-so-inside Tongue parts of the engine one by one?


Regards tyre size, I did an on-line lookup & here are the results
    Diameter    615mm    647.5mm
     Circumference    1932.1mm    2034.2mm
     Poke                38.2mm          81.6mm
     Inset             114.2mm    121.6mm
     Speedo error              0%    -5.02%
     Reading at 30mph    30mph    28.49mph

5% is well out of spec but as long as the car runs weel on them & they dont rub then there good for now.
yes, thank you for that, i did a little research myself and found out the same thing. i am worried about pressures cause according to some internet search the higher the weight rating the lower the pressure... (Huh). here we are talking 89 ->100...which translates : 580kg -> 800kg per tire!!! this is huge difference
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mhi
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2013, 05:41:40 pm »

are there any designs or photos pointing the... not-so-inside Tongue parts of the engine one by one?
You could get the Haynes manual (number 3197) for the Espace range for about £5 used (try eBay). It's not a very good manual, but it is far better than nothing at all.

There are some photos in the matrasport.dk gallery and some useful Renault documents in the vault (under Cars/Espace/vault/J63) but I can't see a general layout of the engine bay in any of them.
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1994 Espace RXE 2.0 (J636)
pduke
Newbie
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Posts: 15


« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2013, 01:08:36 pm »

wow! the vault is full of information! thanx once more, for Haynes as well. i am on my way ordering one
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mhi
Jr. Member
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Posts: 39


« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 04:23:38 pm »

are there any designs or photos pointing the... not-so-inside Tongue parts of the engine one by one?
Sorry about the delay, but here is a start with two photos of my J636 (a smaller engine than yours, and a right-hand-drive car...). I have labelled the location of the idle air control valve, but it's hidden under its own air pipe in any general view. Hope you get the idea.

(My first attempt at adding pictures to a post. Hope this works.)
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1994 Espace RXE 2.0 (J636)
pduke
Newbie
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Posts: 15


« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2013, 01:26:50 pm »

excellent! thanx again mhi!!
found the valve - i am completely terrified to touch it (cause of the the price you mentioned earlier)- i just screwed the screw you pointed, which was quite easy Tongue. taking the valve out on the  other hand seems tricky, it has at least 2 screws and one of them is reachable only with... hobbit hands!!  anyways tonight it is going on a trip so i hope it will work fine so i won;t have to play around with expensive toys Tongue
by the way i can't find the part in any online store, is there a special name for this valve?

oh and i even found the gasoline leak. it is at the end of the little hose with the fitting screw

Brilliant ! i am just pushing and squeezing things for the moment but the thing is that i am beginning to know my car! thanx to you and this forum!
hey did i say thanx?
THANX!!!
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mhi
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2013, 10:55:36 am »

by the way i can't find the part in any online store, is there a special name for this valve?
On one web site it's called "Idle Control Valve, air supply BOSCH - Ref: 0 280 140 501"
http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/idle-control-valve-air-supply/bosch-0-280-140-501_g1298_a0300!280!140!501.html

A loose or leaking vacuum pipe is much more likely to be the cause of fast or irregular idling. Do not buy a new idle valve until you have checked everything else!
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1994 Espace RXE 2.0 (J636)
pduke
Newbie
*
Posts: 15


« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2013, 06:08:23 pm »

wow thanx! mister-auto.co.uk has wayyyyyyy more parts for our car!! i thought all versions of the website was the same. i was wrong
ok this is expensive..., i don't intend to buy one. after pushing and squeezing idle is working better (not always correct though) so i guess you are right, it must be a loose pipe or something. i will investigate further...
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Holywood
Newbie
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Posts: 3



« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2013, 09:21:50 pm »

hi everyone!!
first of all congratulations for your great work in this website. it has been an extreme help for me choosing the Espace i was looking for. yep, i bought this 93 baby (stuck on the borders for many years) back in june. So far it has been great. it went for a 4200 km trip through Europe from day one, with the need of changing only... oils.  Smiley

i am excited with the car so far and after living with it i begin to notice few problems which i want to share with you since you are the experts.
i made a small list for this post, i guess it is not proper opening a different post for each one. admins please correct me if i am wrong

here we go:

1. when turning the key for the first start, before ignition, i have a small leak of petrol in the engine(it smells), then after ignition the smell fades

2. i have two sounds from the front.
 -one is the driving shaft -it is a "tak tak" thing coming after turning the wheel a bit left or right-. I checked that with my engineer, he said if it doesn't bother me it will not be a problem
- the other one is very low "doop" coming probably(?) from the suspension. it is very easy to hear when driving very low speeds in the city passing over light bumps. i have no idea what can that be

3. when idle it goes up to 1.500 rpm. until yesterday i pressed the gas pedal and it would come to normal. now ...it doesn't. i guess this is the idle sensor. can somebody give tips how to clean it, or change it if needed?

4. this is ridiculous but it is a fact. the past owner instead of making me a discount he gave me 4 tires used but in very good condition. i acted as a complete idiot and didn't check the profile of the tires in comparison with the size from Renault.
now this guy has changed to 15" Renault alloy wheels and he was wearing  quite correctly 195/60 15
this scum he gave me a set of 205/65 15 bridgestone duravis r410 100T!!!!! Angry. (and me idiot i took them!!!)
without having any money left to buy new ones i put them on.
so i want an opinion. is this tire as bad as it looks for the car? are the same pressures apply? can it cause problems to the suspension?
...can i keep them...  Undecided


ok this was my small(!) -after honeymoon- list.

any thoughts,advises, opinions will be gratefully welcomed!



The noise from the driveshafts when turning is probably worn cv joint or joints, replacing them will cure the problem. Good luck with the rest of your issues.
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Enjoying retirement
pduke
Newbie
*
Posts: 15


« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2013, 03:02:56 pm »


The noise from the driveshafts when turning is probably worn cv joint or joints, replacing them will cure the problem. Good luck with the rest of your issues.
thank you for your answer, really sorry for delay i still don't receive emails from the forum...
i took it to another engineer, he checked the joints told me it is the driveshft  and that only Peugeot's have a "V" part that can be changed in the shaft. renault drive shafts should be replaced completely (this is a peugeot engineer...). i really don't know.
what i know is that the sounds from the front have multiplied. it is the same sound but it is triggered more easily as the months go by. the most recent is just when the car is immobilized after normal breaking and inertia is applied returning it to flat position, i get the sound once more...

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GrahamT
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 46


« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2013, 07:01:19 pm »

You mean when you hit the brakes and the car stands on its nose for a second then lurches back? It knocks then? It could be any suspension rubber but also, it may be an engine or gearbox mounting loose?? Try rocking the end of the gearbox up and down from underneath and see if anything is loose??

You should be able to get CV joints seperately, if it is a joint problem. Try greasing them up with lots of fresh grease first.

Good luck!
Graham
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roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 02:31:53 pm »

hi everyone!!

3. when idle it goes up to 1.500 rpm. until yesterday i pressed the gas pedal and it would come to normal. now ...it doesn't. i guess this is the idle sensor. can somebody give tips how to clean it, or change it if needed?

any thoughts,advises, opinions will be gratefully welcomed!


This is a common enough problem with this type of set up.  The (Bosch) idle control valve is controlled by the injection computer and is rotated to open or close the air orifice by the ECU momentarily earthing the valve on one side or the other.  So the three connections to the valve are: centre pin is 12v and each side pin is an earth via the computer.  The valve can become sticky with carbon and it needs to be free to rotate very small amounts as directed by the ECU to keep the idle correct.

Now this is the important bit, the ECU requires the temperature figure from a sensor and this is fitted in the thermostat housing near the other sensor that feeds the temperature gauge on the dash.  Often an incorrect idle is this sensor having failed rather than the valve being faulty.  You can remove the valve and clean it out using carburettor cleaner and if it rotates freely, then the sensor is more likely to be the fault.  You can test that too.  There are three resistance readings depending on the temperature.  The sensor is less costly than the valve and easier to check.  So do that first.  I've had several Espace I Quadra and had the erratic idle on two of them.  One required a new sensor the other needed the valve cleaning.

Roy
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 02:35:49 pm by roy4matra » Logged

pduke
Newbie
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Posts: 15


« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2013, 01:52:28 pm »

thanks for the tip Roy!

i have cleaned the valve. first few hours after cleaning i still got the higher idle then it started working normal. about a month now it is ok.
please tell me where is this sensor located? do you have a part number maybe?

cheers!

Pan
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