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Author Topic: 2.2 Water pump repair kit  (Read 4586 times)
roy4matra
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« on: March 10, 2014, 09:25:01 pm »

Has anyone tried one of Simon Auto's 2.2 water pump repair kits?  The idea is correct to save both materials and cost by repairing the water pump rather than having to replace the whole thing, so I ordered two kits to try.  I have a hydraulic press and the experience of repairing water pumps in the past when we used to repair things instead of the wasteful practice of throwing things away.  So I hope I will soon have overhauled 2.2 water pumps available on exchange at a slightly lower cost than new ones.  Mind you there won't be much saving as labour has to be factored in, plus carriage and return carriage.  But then again no one but Simon appears to have new pumps these days.

However, I just wondered if anyone else has done it already.

Roy.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 09:28:35 pm by roy4matra » Logged

klumzer
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 05:46:23 pm »

During the restoration process of my car I went to an expert who is specialized in water pump overhauls. It cost me less than 20€ included the sandblasting and painting of the pulley.
He told me, that a lot of French cars use the same or very similar repair kits so it was a basic job for him.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 08:47:24 pm »

During the restoration process of my car I went to an expert who is specialized in water pump overhauls. It cost me less than 20€ included the sandblasting and painting of the pulley.
He told me, that a lot of French cars use the same or very similar repair kits so it was a basic job for him.

Thanks for your reply Klumzer.

Unfortunately in the UK, and I would bet most of western Europe (France, Belgium, Spain, Germany etc.) no one repairs water pumps now because the labour makes it more expensive than a new one - that is when the new ones are for new -ish cars and you can get them easily.  In the U.K. you cannot even get anyone to supply repair kits.  I have tried for years.  The problem is when you can't get the pump you want and no kits either you are stuck.

A second problem with the Murena is that many don't use them regularly.  This often causes the pump to failure prematurely for reasons I won't go into here.  I know this both because of my engineering background and from experience.  The best way to overcome this is to use a ceramic seal, but I could not achieve this as I could not get the parts I required.

Now I find that the kit Simon provides appears to have a ceramic seal, so if I get the cast steel impeller modified it will be a better pump.  I will be trying this out in my own car first and then report back.  So for a little extra we may have a pump that will have a better seal and not fail early owing to intermittent use.

Roy
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 08:48:02 pm »

Hi Roy

I've seen the kit now, and it certainly looks good. You mention that you want to modify the cast steel impeller. What kind of modification are you looking at? As far as I can see, there's very little room for e.g. a lager impeller in the water pump casing, so I'm just wondering.

Cheers,
Anders
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roy4matra
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2014, 06:42:28 pm »

Hi Roy

I've seen the kit now, and it certainly looks good. You mention that you want to modify the cast steel impeller. What kind of modification are you looking at? As far as I can see, there's very little room for e.g. a lager impeller in the water pump casing, so I'm just wondering.

Cheers,
Anders

The mod is relatively simple Anders.  The seal as provided is a two part and for cast impellers you have to discard the ceramic seal as it makes the seal assembly too deep.  It is aimed at the pumps with aluminium impellers (which I have never seen incidentally).  To fit a cast impeller with the complete seal assembly will require the hub of the impeller machining back, that is all.  I am going to get a number done all at the same time (I hope) since it will be more economic for the machine shop having to do the main set up only once.

Roy
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krede
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2015, 06:07:35 pm »

Just an update here about the water pump repair kit.
I ordered one from Simon and had our engine specialist at work do the refurbishment. He was able to get it to work out, but it was not as straight forward a job as I expected it to be. Seems that the axles for the pulley and the impeller are of different lengths than the ones that was on the pump, and he had to modify one end to get the pulley attached.   
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2015, 06:31:22 pm »

Just an update here about the water pump repair kit.
I ordered one from Simon and had our engine specialist at work do the refurbishment. He was able to get it to work out, but it was not as straight forward a job as I expected it to be. Seems that the axles for the pulley and the impeller are of different lengths than the ones that was on the pump, and he had to modify one end to get the pulley attached.   

Jesper had the same experience. He showed me that in order to make it fit he had part of the collar in the housing ground away so that the impeller could be pressed all the way onto the shaft.
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krede
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2015, 07:33:42 pm »

Seems there are a lot of issues with the stuff they sell :/
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2015, 11:40:48 am »

Seems there are a lot of issues with the stuff they sell :/

No kidding.  Angry
The gaithers for the steering rack that they sell only last about two years. I bought a set right after i got the car and had to replace them two years later. Tried to complain, but could not find the receipt. I bought two sets then, because Philbert needed a set. They lasted two years. Both mine are split as the inspector pointed out at the MOT last fall. Philbert only has one of his split. We suspect that the material is not pure rubber, but contain a mix of synthetic stuff, that dries out. Sad
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 08:25:22 pm »

I may need to get a water pump kit myself. During the months where I worked on thengine to repair the head, there was no water in the block.
After I got it running again I noticed the engine sounded different. There was a sound like metal scraping on metal.  Angry
Using my mechanics stetoscope I find that the sound is strongest and clearest when touching it to the thermostat housing Huh
My conclusion is that it must be the water pump bearing.  Angry could it simply have rusted whith no water in the block?
The engine is running fine. Smiley
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Oetker
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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2015, 08:28:17 am »

Roy mentioned some time ago about Red-line.
A webshop that deliver what they advertise.
This can be interesting.
It's not a direct fit but can be used.
It's for Peu-505 and chrysler-Talbot using N9T? engines.

https://www.redlinecarparts.com/qcp1011-qh-water-pump-p-486914.html
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Oetker
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2015, 05:33:26 am »

My conclusion is that it must be the water pump bearing.  Angry could it simply have rusted whith no water in the block?
The engine is running fine. Smiley

To pinpoint the problem take of the belt and listen again.
Ofcourse not running to long without coolingwater circulating.
If the sound is gone only waterpump and alternator are at suspect.
Mostly you can feel it by turning the pulleys.
In this case it was very clear what went wrong.
Bearing running havy and slipping pulley melted the coolfan till the belt broke.



Herman
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 05:44:56 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2015, 02:58:21 pm »


To pinpoint the problem take of the belt and listen again.
Ofcourse not running to long without coolingwater circulating.
If the sound is gone only waterpump and alternator are at suspect.
Mostly you can feel it by turning the pulleys.
----

Herman
I will try to remove the belt. The alternator is a brand new 80 amp hour one that I put in with plans for a solid state air conditioning unit. (home made with 4 peltier elements) So I think it can only be the water pump.  Sad
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2015, 03:37:35 pm »

I'm not a big fan of 80A alternators in the Murena's.
To prefent slipping you attach the belt to tight.
That put more force on the bearings shortening it's life.
Better is to go for a slight modification to put in a 50/55 Amp. alternator.
If no 500 watt audiosystem is in the car that will be sufficient.
That will never be the case in  a Murena because there is no room for speakers that can handle this kind of output.

Greetz Herman
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Matra_Hans
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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2015, 12:17:43 pm »

HI.
I have had a 60 A generator in my Murena for several years, with out any problems!

Hans
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