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Author Topic: Espace III electrical problems  (Read 16182 times)
WessexElectricNutter
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« on: April 24, 2014, 07:50:40 pm »

Hello everyone,
Firstly, being new here, please forgive my first post syndrome.

Just a lttle background, I bróught 2 espaces, one diesel (2.2dci) from a private trader and ove rare V6 espace, both grand espaces although I wanted my second one to be a 2l petrol standard espace.

The V6 has actually been less trouble despite its misfire and LPG conversion problena (please dont ask.)
The diesel one has been trouble from day one and was more expensive than the v6 one by £50 and the current issues I have are causing me a headache.

problem one,

The car was listed as having a faulty radio, I took the drivers seat out, oh, now got a rotatating bolt so I cant do that (looks like someone got there before I did and bodged it) then lifted the cover and there was no radio at all. I went to Harris's (Nutbourne) and got an a radio out of an R reg espace, mine is Y reg. Fitted it and doesnt worj, display shows off, then took it apart to see if it got flooded, its clean as a whistle, plugged another radio in its place, still nothing from the speakers, put a multimeter across the fuse on the radio.. 10volts! Now this is where I am stumped. What would cause the radio to recieve only 10v? Do I have to dig out the fuse box and check the connections?


Problem 2 has started recently and that is my battery keeps going dead after four days from fully charged or even a day, now Im thinking alarm as it was making scratchy noises when the car was unlocked randonly. So I think its failed ( given the appauling weather over the last 2 years, Im not suprised!) so thisbone I dont know whats causing it either, I said alarm but after looking on this forum, Im not sure as the battery is a good healthy battery and less yhan a year old, it gets to 4.8 volts and thats it

My question is that is there anything else Ive missed or not seen, overlooked, etc? Id be extremely grateful for any responses given.
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Renault Espace III 2.2DCi Privilege (2001)
Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 12:05:13 am »

Welcome to the forum,
I have to be quick tonight so try the radio with a remote if you have one. & not from the stalk as they dont allways work.
Battery drain is most often the fault of a bridge rectifier diode going down in the alternator. Try disconnecting it overnight to see.
Im in Dorset if it helps.
Brian.
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WessexElectricNutter
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Posts: 72


« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 01:52:39 am »

Welcome to the forum,
I have to be quick tonight so try the radio with a remote if you have one. & not from the stalk as they dont allways work.
Battery drain is most often the fault of a bridge rectifier diode going down in the alternator. Try disconnecting it overnight to see.
Im in Dorset if it helps.
Brian.

Hmm, theres a thought, but I'm wondering what the crackling on the speaker to the alarm is related.

Tried both ways as its a hideaway radio, even got 2 remotes for it, the one that came with the car and the one I got from the scrappie, same result, keeps popping for a second and then going silent for a second then popping, etc. IIRC, the one I put in is a Pioneer 2156-ZRN.

And ohh, another one from the South... err, I'm from Chichester, West Sussex, well, Ok, a little village about a mile and a half to the west of Chichester. I work for Stagecoach South West Trains (since I'm a train enthusiast) around Guildford, Woking or Haslemere, depending what my roster says. :-)

Having said that and despite tempting my managers, I've still not got the Espace(s) to do a rail replacement bus service yet, although that would be fun to see.
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Renault Espace III 2.2DCi Privilege (2001)
Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
Valfrid
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2014, 12:20:34 am »

interesting what you say about the alternator issue Brain - I have the same issue of the battery running flat on my Espace 2.2DCi and it seems to run flat even after a long drive - charge it with a charger and not drive it and the battery lasts for weeks with the car stood but dive it and then park it up and it's flat within a couple of days. So, the alternator diodes - is there a replacement regulator pack or is it just replace with a recon unit?
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BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 09:56:07 pm »

you may be able to get a kit like this one :> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-LUCAS-ALTERNATOR-A127-REPAIR-KIT-RECTIFIER-REGULATOR-SLIPRINGS-MASSEY-/151003104919?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item23287c8697

You will need to get the make & model no. of the alternator.
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WessexElectricNutter
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Posts: 72


« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2014, 08:27:56 pm »

Small update, I got my dad to help me on this, since he is an electric whiz, I'm getting that way, so I spent about the last week charging the battery up to 2 of my 4 cars, (my Corsa's which took a total of 5 days to charge before throwing out acid! Eek! And the Espaces which took about 3 days on a fast charger!) I also left the battery to stand for about 3 or 4 days without any connections.

Since the weather was nice, plugged in the battery, smeared it with grease on one of the terminals, borrowed my dads multimeter, told him to tell me the current with the sidelights off and....

"Over an amp"

By the way, over an amp WITHOUT anything on.

Disconnected the alarm, the first suspect by pulling out both fuses:

"600mA"

Right, lets try suspect 2, the radio:

"300mA".

Sorted, we know what caused the problems. Now to find some replacement bits. And yes, it started without the alarm connected, lets see if it drains over the next 3 days.


As for the Corsa battery, since its a 1.2L model, an SXi model from 2002, plugged the battery in and waited for the dashboard to eventually decide to start working. (They don't like idling!), turned it over and it works.
Then did the suspension arm which needed changing and took me 3 hours or more to do.
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Renault Espace III 2.2DCi Privilege (2001)
Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 09:12:34 pm »

There will be some drain as the body controller is on even with the ign. off. You should lock the car & wait a little to see if the body controller switches off.
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WessexElectricNutter
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Posts: 72


« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2014, 09:14:12 pm »

Small update. Ever since I pulled out the Alarm fuse, the car has started first time even after a week or 2 standing around. It wouldn't do that before, it would take a good few attempts.

Now, I tried to get back to the radio today and I'm stuck on this problem. The radio is off, I've gone through the problems with my dad and the issue is the radio will not turn on. We've probed the wires and found a few thick ones (yellow, red, white and black), white has a 12V feed on it and is linked to the fuse in the passenger side fusebox (15A one) and there is also another 10amp fuse protecting it.

The problem is, the red wire which I am guessing but don't know for sure, that it is "switched ignition feed" or "after ignition radio", the problem is, with the ignition on:

"0V" and I can't find a blown fuse anywhere, nor can my dad (unless I've overlooked something!)

Now my question is, where does this white wire go and where (if any) is there a fuse to it?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 11:29:27 pm by WessexElectricNutter » Logged

Renault Espace III 2.2DCi Privilege (2001)
Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2014, 05:32:44 pm »

As my seats are out I was able to check this, middle row of fuses 7th fuse up,  labled ad air con on mine
Brian
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WessexElectricNutter
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2014, 01:28:22 am »

As my seats are out I was able to check this, middle row of fuses 7th fuse up,  labled ad air con on mine
Brian

I take it that should mean if that fuse blows, I then loose my air conditioning and heater control?

Also, is there a stereo ISO lead that has a connector? I'm wondering if there's a possibility of a chopped wire. I know the end I was looking at was fine (under the seat), I couldn't find anything around the fusebox, but I wasn't able to pull it out (unless there's a knack to it), so there has to be a wire somewhere.


I'm also looking at modifying it with something the car hasn't had (it should be its last mod Smiley ).
While on the subject of electronics, does anyone know what I need to fit cruise control to a DCi espace III? Apart from the relay, steering wheel, toggle switch and pedal switch? I've tried to see if there is a vacuume motor required, but it appears these have a pedometer, which should mean in theory that the conversion is simpler as the ECU controls everything - or so it should. Pulling apart my V6 one may throw up something different though as the L7X engines I know are cable controlled. Another point I'm also going to throw up, its also manual. (And one day, even that I want to convert to a 6 speed manual).
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Renault Espace III 2.2DCi Privilege (2001)
Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 09:39:18 pm »

Like i say it is labeled with an aircon icon, I dont know if it is actual the aircon fuse. But you should check it. To get the fusebox out you will need to lift the carpet & there is five or six nuts & bolts that hold the frame around it. Then you should be able to get to all the wires & trace it. Cheaper versions of the car had a radio in the glovebox. Maybe worth looking at the breakers yard. You would be able to get the single din slot mounting frame. There is no iso connector but I think you will be able to get an adaptor.
I just bought a series four - 2005 dci automatic for £440. It's too god damed ugly for me to drive so I was considering using it for a donor car & replacing my lx7 with the dci. But then I dont like the dci for every day use so it will be repaired & sold.
My lx7 has vacuum operated cruise control. Have a look in the thread below as I have listed the file & page in the vault that has all the info.
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WessexElectricNutter
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Posts: 72


« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2014, 01:07:38 pm »

Like i say it is labeled with an aircon icon, I dont know if it is actual the aircon fuse. But you should check it. To get the fusebox out you will need to lift the carpet & there is five or six nuts & bolts that hold the frame around it. Then you should be able to get to all the wires & trace it. Cheaper versions of the car had a radio in the glovebox. Maybe worth looking at the breakers yard. You would be able to get the single din slot mounting frame. There is no iso connector but I think you will be able to get an adaptor.

I've already got one bit and I've been trying to trace the other bit, I've tried removing the fusebox but I think I need to dig further around the front, I think one of the owners has played a bit with the wiring. :S It all comes down to time at the moment.

I just bought a series four - 2005 dci automatic for £440. It's too god damed ugly for me to drive so I was considering using it for a donor car & replacing my lx7 with the dci. But then I dont like the dci for every day use so it will be repaired & sold.

DCis aren't that bad, I've used my DCi pretty much everyday to go from Chichester to Guildford and back daily, apart from finding that the parking bays at Guildford station (where I work) are too small for the car, I've had little problems. Still, £440, that's a bargin.

My lx7 has vacuum operated cruise control. Have a look in the thread below as I have listed the file & page in the vault that has all the info.

My L7X one despite being a Phase II, I believe is identical.  Interestingly, the DCi I believe has an electronic throttle which really complicates matters (or simplifies matters if the ECU contains practically everything)
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Renault Espace III 2.2DCi Privilege (2001)
Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
WessexElectricNutter
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Posts: 72


« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2014, 09:59:52 pm »

Got to the bottom of it finally and it was far worse than I expected.

Here's a LOT of photos to explain, but basically, I keep finding the espace is getting flooded on the passenger side and the drivers side, god knows how long the water is there for or if there has been something strange going on (like a break in? The driver's door card has been removed at some point in its life....) So after getting back from work at Guildford station and scratching the thing, I also now need help repairing that - this thing never stops! Its worse t than the clio.


I took the drivers still trim off and had a good poke around. I did some significant amount of research before I went in to find out where these flipping connectors are. The only copy I have is paper copies so sorry everyone. There are 2 connectors, R261 is the one we are interested in, it goes to device 261 or the radio.


Interestingly, the other connector I don't know where it goes. (267 on the other diagram) But it appears for some other function, possibly radio/casette. I know why it all exists, its to allow the Espace to have multiple radio configurations and the wires going under the dashboard are absent from my espace. Great! Now, the location is the same left and right, so that is good to know, seeing the diagrams are for left hand drive cars and I have a right hand car. This is what you get for being British! Or am I English? I don't know.



When I undid the trim, I had to find out where this wire went, it didn't take me long to identify it, the 2 black ones is what the previous owner installed in terms of parking sensors, I've pretty much removed most of it...  As I wrote this, I think I know whats gone wrong, the owner has put the wires through a plug and its flooding the floor as 2 of them go to the front bumper. Hmmmm! Its all starting to make some sense.

http://s57.photobucket.com/user/wessexelectricnut/media/Espaces/IMG_1973_zpsd72a3fde.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Anyway, this is what I found. Also the drivers door card has been removed, its quite loose so I suspect there has also been a break in as I found a shard of glass. That doesn't help matters in finding where the problems are.


And the connector:




Something has seriously bodged this car, its already cost me nearly £2k to fix (most of that was on the engine!) and ok, some of it is good (the lowering job seems to be well done even though the subframe was loose, I can corner quicker, the exhaust seems to be done very well) but some bits have been short cutted. If you are going to do a job, for gods sakes! Do it properly!



Now the thing I have to fix, I've got some filler on order, but suggestions? At this rate, I'd be glad if I get another job, it seems like I need a bottomless wallet to fix this thing and I've not even started on the V6 espace which is in better condition but still needs a little TLC.
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Renault Espace III 2.2DCi Privilege (2001)
Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
roy4matra
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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2014, 06:56:07 pm »

Got to the bottom of it finally and it was far worse than I expected.

... but basically, I keep finding the espace is getting flooded on the passenger side and the drivers side, god knows how long the water is there ...

When the Espace III were new there were a number of shells that had poor joints between the panels so water used to get in to the footwells by coming in between the panels.  There was either a recall or we had to send bad ones to the body shops to get them sealed (can't remember which now).  So it's possible this is one where the water is getting in between the metal joints of the front bulkhead.  Don't ask me where exactly as i was not involved - i just remember reading about the problem.

Reference Renault wiring: if the wires are original, plain red should always be live, plain yellow is ignition, blue is to do with lighting and plain black is earth.  These are the only colours they stuck to rigidly.  If one of these colours has a second colour it signifies a modification to the basic, so for instance black with a white tracer would be a switched earth, and blue with different colour tracers would be different parts of the light system, so side, head lamp dip and main beam will have blue with different additional colours.  All other circuits can have all sorts of colours and they are not always consistent so you have to refer to the correct wiring diagram (and occasionally even these can be wrong!)

Roy
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WessexElectricNutter
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Posts: 72


« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2014, 11:08:34 pm »

When the Espace III were new there were a number of shells that had poor joints between the panels so water used to get in to the footwells by coming in between the panels.  There was either a recall or we had to send bad ones to the body shops to get them sealed (can't remember which now).  So it's possible this is one where the water is getting in between the metal joints of the front bulkhead.  Don't ask me where exactly as i was not involved - i just remember reading about the problem.

http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21742&page=2 Here? I'm starting to think that this thread may actually be useful.
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Renault Espace III 2.2DCi Privilege (2001)
Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
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