Thermo switch engine cooling location and problem with PLIP key on Espace JE 2.0

[2cv]

Hi
I have two problems that I hope someone can help me with
I need to replace the thermo switch that controls the engine cooling fan where is the thermo-switch located on 2.0l 16V engine?
My second problem is one of keys (one button type) for a while has behaved erratically - the little red light in it has been flicking/flashing and the central locking opens and closes all the time.   It turned out that the little micro switch which you activate had reached its end. I found a new one on E-bay and had it soldered in by a trained technician.
When pressing the button the little red led light comes on but the central locking does not react, I can start the car so there is no problem with the immobilizer.
Is there some synchronization procedure that has to be carried out?
A new key costs 2000 DKK ( ~270 EUR or ~215£) from the Renault dealer here in Denmark.  Do any of you have  a cheaper solution if I can’t get the old one to work?
Thanks in advance

Lars

[Jackle]

I have the same question about the thermo switch. All the info I can find says it should be at the bottom right of the radiator (as you face the car from the front), but I can't see anything there at all!

[2cv]

Hi

I found the switch; it is located in the cylinder head underneath the air filter box. I believe it is a dual component, temperature sensor/thermo switch as it has three connecting pins (one pin for the temperature sensor and two pins for the switch function). You will need a 21 mm long socket to remove it. I have installed the switch but not have a chance to test it.

Regards

Lars

[Jackle]

Yes, I found that one and assumed it was just the temperature sensor for the dash readout.

This one is located on the outlet from the engine to the radiator, I would have though the thermo switch for the fan would be on the outlet from the radiuator to the engine, but I could be wrong....

Let me know if your new switch/sensor solves the problem.

James

[BrianM]

with regard to resyncing the keyfob, sit in the car & press the central locking button in the roof console. Hold pressed, the locks should lock & then unlock, keep pressed until unlock. Now press the keyfob, followed by the second one if you have it.

There are two temp senders, one for the dash display, the other for the engine ecu. The engine ecu will switch the fan on to speed one, then speed two if getting hotter. You can test speed two by switching on the air conditioning. There are two relays fitted in the radiator close to the fan on the battery side. There is a cover on them, so follow the wires & you will find it. I hope this helps.

[2cv]

Hi

The thermo switch did the job for me the fan is working again. I have just driven from Denmark to the south of France so I had a good chance to test it.
I have got a new problem on the way down - I started to get a funny/strange sound, “rumbling” sounds that kicks in at certain speeds 60-70 km/h and then again at 100- 110 km/h.  To me it sounds like a wheel bearing on the right hand side as the noise intensifies if I make a turn to the left.
I had both front wheel bearings changed last year. So I think the rear wheel (right hand side) will be my first choice when I go to find a mechanic on Monday.  I would expect a faulty bearing to make noise over the full speed range.
Have any of you experienced a faulty bearing behaving as described above?
Is there a simple way to check it or do you recommend the trial and error method?

regards

Lars

[Jackle]

BrianM, I tried your suggestion of following the wiring. The loom that comes out of the fuse/relay box has wires connected to the fan, the two relays you mention, an earth lead, a connection to a sensor on the canister on the LHS (seems to be connected to the air con), and also a pair of thick green wires connected to something fitted between the fan and the radiator (below the two relays) - I'm not sure what this is, it looks like a coil but I don't know what it does?
There are no other wires conning from this loom.

2cv, that sounds promising, maybe I'll give that a go and see what happens, can't do any harm anyway! 

[BrianM]

If you switch on the air con then the fans will run. This proves the circuit is working. If it is then you need a switch. If not then maybe a fuse, relay or bad connection. The coil is the shunt needed for the slow speed fan.

[Jackle]

BrianM, thanks for the info.

The fan comes on with the air con, but doesn't seem to come on otherwise.

I've changed the sensor under the airbox (as 2cv/Lars) suggested, and tried it out this afternoon. I let the car idle in the driveway, the temp rose up to 4 bars and stayed there for quite a long time, and then rose steadily upwards, when it hid 7 bars I switched the aircon on (to run the fan), the temp briefly hit 8 bars then dropped quite quickly back to 4.

The fan only came on when I switched on the air con.

So I'm guessing the next things to check/change are fuses and relays, can you please tell me which ones I need to be looking at?

[roy4matra]

I have the same question about the thermo switch. All the info I can find says it should be at the bottom right of the radiator (as you face the car from the front), but I can't see anything there at all!

That information is inaccurate and out of date.

All radiator switches were so unreliable that they stopped using them once the later engines were all injected and controlled by computers.  The injection computer takes its temp. readings from engine sensors and controls the radiator fan via relays.  If you have air con. then the fan will run at two speeds.  A low speed either when you hit the lower temp. setting with the air con. off, or immediately you switch the air con. on.  If the air con. is on and the fan already at low speed, then the fan will be brought up to high speed if the coolant temp. exceeds the temp. setting.

Only Espace 1 and 2 had switches in the radiator.  Espace 3 (and yours must be since it has a 16-valve engine) were controlled by the inj. computer via sensors and relays.

Roy

[Jackle]

Hi Roy,
Yes mine is an Espace 3.
I've changed the temperature sensor under the airbox, but it made no difference.

When I switch on the air con, the fan comes on a few seconds later. It doesn't sound like it's running at low speed though... I couldn't imagine it running much faster!

Would I be correct in thinking that the fan speed is controlled by the two relays mounted on the fan housing? The larger one being high speed and the smaller one low speed?

James

[roy4matra]

Hi Roy,
Yes mine is an Espace 3.
I've changed the temperature sensor under the airbox, but it made no difference.

When I switch on the air con, the fan comes on a few seconds later. It doesn't sound like it's running at low speed though... I couldn't imagine it running much faster!

Would I be correct in thinking that the fan speed is controlled by the two relays mounted on the fan housing? The larger one being high speed and the smaller one low speed?

James

That sounds correct.  IIRC the relays are 40 and 60 amp.  The fans get their feed through these but it is the computer that controls them.  You may be surprised when you hear the fans at high speed as they can be really noisy but as they are not often heard from the near front (you are normally sat inside sitting in traffic!) you don't realise it.

You can test the wiring to the relays and test the fans easily enough if you understand electrics.  There will be a live feed to each relay, which will be a big red lead, so that should have battery voltage.  When the relay is switched on, that voltage gets transferred to the output.  The relay switching is done by the computer so that is usually what we call 'earth switching' - in other words, the earth side of the relay is switched to earth by the computer, normally it would have no earth and other side of the relay switching is already powered (ignition IIRC).

In DIN numbers 85 and 86 are the relay switching connections, 30 is the main live feed and 87 is the output to whatever it is being controlled.  Sometimes 30 and 87 are switched around but it doesn't matter, the relay when switched on connects 30 to 87 otherwise they are open circuit.

It you have an ohmmeter, check the resistance across each motor to check if they are O.K.  Check the supply to the relay both main and switching feeds.  I suspect either you have a motor or wiring fault.  It could also be one of the relays, so if you say it works at low speed that relays seems O.K. so check the larger 60 amp one.  I have had to replace one of those before.

Roy

[BrianM]

Follow as per Roys instructions. You will need to leave the car running for 20 to 30 mins before it gets to temperature before the fan cuts in. The only real way to check the circuit is to visit a renault mechanic who can activate the circuit via the ecu with a diagnostic tool.