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Author Topic: Need help with my 1.6 relays!  (Read 3111 times)
Joe Webb
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Posts: 30


« on: August 01, 2014, 01:21:45 am »

Hi there, new owner here, names Joe.

I recently bought a murena 1.6 for 500 quid and I am currently restoring it.

So far it's going well but I'm a bit stumped by the relay pattern and fuse board. The car came with a bunch of corroded ReF 19 relays and was missing a few, also the drivers manual I ordered seems to disagree with the fuse arrangement currently in the car.  Huh

the relays that were in the car (ReF 19) appear to be 5 pin relays with the middle pin removed. I bought a couple more of the 5 pins to test my electrics but they don't seem to make much difference, not sure if i need all of the relays in place for it to work.

I will attach pictures of my fuse board and the relay ports that are empty.

If someone could take a picture of their fuse board and label the relays that would be great, also the relays in the drivers footwell and engine bay are missing and I need to know which ones to get.
also let me know if I've missed any relay ports.

Many thanks
Joe






 
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GP
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Posts: 244



« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 08:50:35 am »

Roy Gillard sells some excellent laminated electrical diagrams for the Murena that are correct.

Contact can be made below:

http://www.matraclub.org.uk/redwood.html
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suffolkpete
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Posts: 451



« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2014, 11:48:27 am »

Seconded.  Also, you seem to have a non-standard fuse panel, it looks like the ones that used to be sold by Simon Auto in Germany.  They now do a replacement that more closely matches the original.  The relay in the engine compartment is for the heated rear window and that in the footwell the flasher unit.  My advice is to join the Matra Enthusiasts' Club and come to one of their meetings.  You will find cars to look at and plenty of advice freely given.  The electrics on these cars are quite straightforward if you have a wiring diagram, a multimeter and a methodical approach to fault finding.
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TimS
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Posts: 172



« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 02:56:03 pm »

Hi
I had the same board fitted in my car. It was a remake by MatraMagic. Not very good. I've just had a new one fitted by Roy which works much better. Well worth getting it replaced as I lost main beam, flash and driving lights.
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TimS
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Posts: 172



« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 08:04:30 pm »

My new board, sorry no underside shot yet.
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TimS
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Posts: 172



« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2014, 12:18:32 pm »

Also meant to say, you might one to check the correct functioning of your light switches, as it found out that, perhaps as a result of these different boards, that if had lost the "headlamp flash" function.
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Oetker
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2014, 07:39:04 pm »

The relays are standard things easy to source



The connector near the vacumepot is for switching rear window heater. (relay).

Fusepanel.
I desided to solder the wires on the panel.
The connectors are a pain giving problems over and over again.



Also I bridged the ignition barrel.
To high curents flow there.



Made a thicker wire from the battery to the heavy relay and fusebox.



The old wire is splitted in 2 wires in the loom (stupid).

The car do so much better now.
The charge indicator made a jump forwards.

Herman




« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 07:51:11 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Joe Webb
Jr. Member
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Posts: 30


« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2014, 12:05:22 pm »

wow, some great advice here, thanks so much!

I'll let you know how I get on  Tongue
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roy4matra
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Posts: 869



« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2014, 11:16:00 pm »

Hi there, new owner here, names Joe.

... the relays that were in the car (ReF 19) appear to be 5 pin relays with the middle pin removed. I bought a couple more of the 5 pins to test my electrics but they don't seem to make much difference, not sure if i need all of the relays in place for it to work.

I will attach pictures of my fuse board and the relay ports that are empty.

If someone could take a picture of their fuse board and label the relays that would be great, also the relays in the drivers footwell and engine bay are missing and I need to know which ones to get.
also let me know if I've missed any relay ports.

Many thanks
Joe




Hello Joe, welcome to Matra 'fun' - often the wiring gets messed about and the next owner has to try to figure it all out!  People who modify electrics should provide amendment diagrams or info. so others know what was done, or for even themselves who after many years may have forgotten what they did!

This looks like an early Matra Magic replacement circuit board which has the 4 relays on the top and modern type blade fuses.  The original circuit boards had the old type European fuses on the top and the four 4-pin relays underneath, and had tracks in aluminium and were not the best quality.  It was silly of Matra Magic to put the relays on top as they stopped the cover being fitted, and you don't need them on top as relays rarely fail so they were better underneath and out of the way.  Also it meant their contacts were easily accessible on the top where you could do any diagnostic checks and even switch them on manually to test whatever they operated.

The 5-pin relays you mention are changeover relays.  This board only requires 4-pin relays as they are simply on or off.  You don't need changeover relays.




This socket is for the flasher relay.  It is empty BUT it looks like someone may have fitted another type relay just above and to the right of it.  It maybe an electronic flasher relay.  Does the car have LED lamp 'bulbs'?  Check in case someone has replaced the standard bulbs with LEDs.

The Matra original flasher is non-standard 3-pin so a normal 3-pin won't work unless you move the terminal in the socket to match the pattern required.  That may be another reason they put that black relay nearby - they didn't get the right one and found a standard one wouldn't work!




This socket is for the heated rear window relay, as one of the others said.  The main supply (large red wire) comes from the front and is often corroded through in the multi-plug and socket under the windscreen washer bottle, so the relay loses its main supply and the rear window heater could not work anyway.  Again this is a simple on/off relay so a 4-pin relay is fine.

Finally, as I'm an auto-electrician and have had my 2.2 Murena from new, and I have the original factory electrical diagram drawings, I know that even Matra made some mistakes, and there are other diagrams around with even more mistakes on them, so some years ago I made some accurate diagrams.  Also Matra modified the circuits a few times even during the Murena short life, yet there are generally only two diagrams around - one for 1.6 and one for 2.2 cars.  That is insufficient for them to suit all the cars made.  So I can provide the right diagram for any car if I am given its specification.

Roy
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 09:05:03 am by roy4matra » Logged

suffolkpete
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Posts: 451



« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 11:17:20 am »

The Matra original flasher is non-standard 3-pin so a normal 3-pin won't work unless you move the terminal in the socket to match the pattern required.  That may be another reason they put that black relay nearby - they didn't get the right one and found a standard one wouldn't work!


Roy
Alternatively you could use a 4-pin flasher unit and connect an earth to the fourth pin.  The one I've got was sold by Halfords as being suitable for the Rancho
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Oetker
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2014, 12:08:32 pm »

Quote.

Alternatively you could use a 4-pin flasher unit and connect an earth to the fourth pin.  The one I've got was sold by Halfords as being suitable for the Rancho
=============================================================================================================

One disadvantage.
The flasher unit always have a positive and that is needed to let the hazard lights work without ignition barrel switched on.
If you use a ground, there will be always running a current with the ignition barrel switched off.
The electronics in the moduul are always switched on in that case.
It is not a high current but if you  don't use the car for a while the battery is flat.

In my 2.2 I use this.
The infamous Lucas blinker from a mini.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/lucas-SFB100-35010-FL5-GFU2101-RTC3560-flasher-unit-LAND-ROVER-GENUINE-/230666491102?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35b4cb54de


a bit fiddling with the 3 wires and the connector  but they do the trick.


Blinkspeed OK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6pV6IL5nAY


Herman

« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 01:16:29 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Joe Webb
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 30


« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 05:49:10 pm »

thanks guys, nearly ready to tackle the electrics, just need to finish reinstalling my radiator and the fibreglass front cavity

I ended up buying the flasher relay from matra magic, just saw it there when I was buying gas struts and windscreen surround, haven't tested it yet though

cheers!
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Joe Webb
Jr. Member
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Posts: 30


« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 01:43:46 am »

Refitted the fibreglass cavity, re-connected all my electrics and refilled my cooling system today!

need to look at the electrovalve for the headlights but once i put the matra magic relay in all my lights started working! go figure..

the headlights worked before and they still do but the spotlights weren't, hopefully thats cause the bumper wasn't connected.

also windows don't lower but I was told that's the switch, not the motor... fingers crossed

not necessarily surprised by the outcome, but very relieved indeed!
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