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Author Topic: Espace JE and parts supply - are they dying ?  (Read 2251 times)
renaultbiler
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« on: July 02, 2016, 11:06:46 pm »

Hello Espace friends!

Much time has passed since i last was active with car stuff, its just very time consuming to create and run your own business i guess.

But i still have my Espace 24v (and Alpine), and have noe plans to change any of that. We are happy together.

I have however for some time now been struggeling with leaking air suspension on the 24v and it finally blew open a week ago (i always knew that day would come).

After some quick research on new air springs it seems very difficult to get. I have a supplier in germany for new parts, and what makes the alarm bells go off is that these parts are no longer available through the Renault network in Germany.

Are we passing the point of sudden death on parts for our Espaces now ?
My contact in germany also says parts for other older Renaults are getting more and more limited, historically Renault has always been good on supplying parts for older cars. This seems to have changed (unless its a Germany Renault policy issue).

Although i was able to track down some new air springs in Latvia, it was too late (and costly) and ive already decided to convert into spring suspension as a 2002 2.2dCi became available as a donor car (i can fill in with some pictures of the conversion later, its already done now).

Anyone else experienced serious part issues ?

Best regards Tom
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
renaultsan
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2016, 04:51:13 pm »

Quote from:
[/quote
Sorry to contradict you Tom, but my experience with Renault and older models says they don't care a stuff for anything over 5 years old.  It gets worse if you own something a bit rare, like our 1990 Espace or the Renault 25 Limo that my Son has. The limo is the only right hand drive model in UK and Renault, despite having reg number and all the ID plate numbers, could not even trace the car at all in their records.
As we now have a total of 10 Renaults of ages from 1974 to 1995, we gave up completely on getting parts from Renault and now use e-bay and other sources for our parts
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Renault Alpine GTA D500
Renault 25 V6 Automatic
Renault 25 TXI Multivalve
1990 Renault Espace
1974 Renault 15 TL 1300
1978 Renault 15 GTL 1300
Renault 25 GTX 2,2
Renault Extra 1.9 Diesel Vans (2)
Matra_Hans
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Owner of Bagheera, Rancho, Murena & Espace


« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2016, 07:51:28 pm »

hi
I know from experience that front sub frame and drive shafts are no longer available for the Espace III.
So I think that Renault just does not care!

regards
Hans
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2016, 05:53:07 am »

Quote from:
[/quote
Sorry to contradict you Tom, but my experience with Renault and older models says they don't care a stuff for anything over 5 years old.  It gets worse if you own something a bit rare, like our 1990 Espace or the Renault 25 Limo that my Son has. The limo is the only right hand drive model in UK and Renault, despite having reg number and all the ID plate numbers, could not even trace the car at all in their records.
As we now have a total of 10 Renaults of ages from 1974 to 1995, we gave up completely on getting parts from Renault and now use e-bay and other sources for our parts

I think this must have been a uk issue. Ive managed to order both metal body plates and brand new headlights for a R30 on "special order" although it some years ago now.

But times are obviously changing and we best stack whatever bits and pieces we find along the way.

I now got confirmation from a supplier that contacted the manufacturer of the JE air bellows and they no longer make them (wont make them). So a convertion to springs or another bellow system is the only option.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2016, 08:38:46 pm »

Anyone else experienced serious part issues ?

Hi Tom, good to see you here Smiley

The air suspension has always been difficult. We used to have a spanish forum user who struggled with it years ago. Converting to coil springs is a good solution, I think. It seems, however, that Matra is slowly discontinuing their support for the Espace's, especially the wonderful, but uneconomical 24v. As Hans mentions, drive shafts for the 24v are not available from Renault or other sources. I have been able to find drive shafts for other models on eBay, though, but not for the 24v. I have bought a new outer joint to fit.

New keys are not available either.

Last year, I had trouble finding a new steering column and ended up fitting a used joint in the column instead.

Other than that, I still keep l'Espace running. She just passed 15 years and 322.000 km. Age is showing, but she is running perfectly Smiley

/Anders

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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
renaultbiler
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2016, 02:02:06 pm »

Good thing the 24v is more or less as the laguna engine then. And i see the special JE Valeo coil are now new on ebay.

I'll strip the 2,2 dCi i have for parts very much down for sure, cutting of wings and panels, all electrics, front subframe seems good aswell, doors +++. PS: engine and car has only 142.000km (and i dont need the engine)

Also took out the regulated climatic control units and cable harness. Seems like a fair enough job to retrofin on our car with manual regulation. Only one harness from BII, and replace the one to the roof console.

The donor car also had the new type brakes in very good shape (2001 car, mine is just pre 07/2000) so i swapped the complete rear suspension inkluded handwire and brakes with new type calippers as the brake pads are then equal as the Scenic 2.0 PH2 amongst others.
Also upgraded to the big post 07/2000 disks (305mm) in front, my 24v had the smaller pre 07/2000 disks (288mm). To my big surprice it was only the disks that where different, calippers, pads and brackets are identical.

The spring conversion was an ok job, but it was raised maybe about 1 cm higher than original spring setup due to the upper mountings being different. But it looks ok, regardless i'll but a lowering kit with 30mm drop on it since the springs from donor car are rusty and needs replacement anyways.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 11:18:01 am by renaultbiler » Logged

1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
renaultbiler
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2016, 02:04:05 pm »

Here is the rest of the pictures.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 11:18:51 am by renaultbiler » Logged

1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
WessexElectricNutter
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 01:17:45 pm »

After some quick research on new air springs it seems very difficult to get. I have a supplier in germany for new parts, and what makes the alarm bells go off is that these parts are no longer available through the Renault network in Germany.

Are we passing the point of sudden death on parts for our Espaces now ?
My contact in germany also says parts for other older Renaults are getting more and more limited, historically Renault has always been good on supplying parts for older cars. This seems to have changed (unless its a Germany Renault policy issue).

Although i was able to track down some new air springs in Latvia, it was too late (and costly) and ive already decided to convert into spring suspension as a 2002 2.2dCi became available as a donor car (i can fill in with some pictures of the conversion later, its already done now).

Anyone else experienced serious part issues ?

Its dependant on the parts, I'm currently going through a similar issue with my (nearly) 20 year old Clio where some parts are almost impossible to get hold of and others (shockingly) are available. For example, I found a complete Renault Clio Williams carpet available and infrared sensors available for the central locking, but the rear storage container isn't available any more (And I'm still looking for one if anyone knows where to get it). I've read in an auction that the infrared remotes are also becoming hard to find. It is to be expected for a vehicle of that age as I believe the way the parts are produced is the factor. When it comes down to parts, I think you need to consider the likelihood of it failing and how many you need to support the cars for their lifetime, around 10 years.

Part problems aren't unique to Renaults, most manufacturers have this problem because of the way mass cars are produced. Considering you are launching new models constantly, you need to think "How do I produce, store and distribute the parts?", answer is warehousing, but how much warehousing can you go before it consumes your budget? Or worse, take up too much space on this earth (so there is the environmental impact.)
We already have part of the answer depending how some bits are built, that is 3D printing which is currently used now, but will the manufacturers adopt it and will they be willing to store several terabytes of files on a hard drive when they have to buy a new one every time a model launches? Having said that, a new hard drive is cheaper than extending a warehouse. New server hard drive maybe a few hundred quid.

A few thoughts for you.
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Renault Espace III 3.0 V6 Privilege (2001)
renaultbiler
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2016, 06:40:13 pm »

My main concern with this thread was the Matra specific parts as they are out of Renault control as i see it. We might be in a situation where wear, tear and break parts become unavailable when the current stock ends. And thats not good at all.

Renault has always been fairly good with these parts, especially since they often span across several models. To expect them to supply new carpets etc is obviously to ambigious, but a driveshaft or key suspention components is more alarming. And as ive said earlier, Renault have made me parts where the stock was empty years ago.

Once i ordered som new engine bay sheet metal for an old R30, to repair corrotion. 6 pieces in total. It took a couple of months, but 3 of them came dusty with old style part number stickers, and 3 came with fresh paint and new style part number stickers.
Later i ordered 4 new headlights for an R30TX PH2. When delivered (it took its time though) they came in new style boxes, made on order from Valeo. And that is some rare shit to find in the first place! At the time, the cars was 20-25 years old.

But Matra.... when they say stop, im afraid its game over.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
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