Espace III

[roy4matra]

In case you have not visited my website and FAQ pages for some time, I have now added another couple of pages regarding the Espace III, mainly to warn prospective owners of the fact that some necessary items are no longer available anywhere, and if one of these fails you could have a vehicle you can't repair.  Well you might be able to repair it if you design and make something yourself, but you won't be able to simply buy a manufacturer spare!

Roy

[pduke]

This seems like an end to an era. And it is very sad. I already have a JE under my scope... It is for sale near me and nobody wants it. Stationary for since 2015 (imagine the plastic parts sitting there, getting worse every day.... )
Now with such news, on one hand you want to avoid any Matra Espace ΙII for the obvious reasons, but on the other hand if you don't get one now... you will never get one!!

Since we talked about this and you highly recomended that i should drop such plans, this master clutch cylinder has become a nightmare to me.

quoting from your site:

[quote  link=http://www.matraclub.org.uk/faqh.htm]
.....Finally, you should know that certain essential parts are now unavailable anywhere and a failure in any of those will render the vehicle unusable unless you design and make your own alternative. One good example here is the clutch master cylinder on many of the manual models. These master cylinders are plastic, both body and piston, and the clutch fluid system was a sealed system, so when it failed you had to replace the complete system which came pre-bled in a complete kit. They have not been available for a long time, so you cannot fix the clutch unless you design and make your own system. There are other plastic parts that will have become hard and brittle with age and heat, and if you break one and cannot get a replacement, again you would have to devise and make your own alternative. They have quick release coolant hose couplings that are part plastic and will often break when trying to get them apart. Electronic parts, plus software and computers that are twenty years old are a problem in any sphere - you only have to think about your home computer or phones from 20 years ago to understand how this could be a problem, so when we are talking about a dedicated item for a little made car subjected to heat, cold, wet, or damp, as well as dirt and vibration over all those years, you should see there are likely to be major problems......

[/quote]

Where is this thing? why i can't find it in any car parts online shop? Off course this is the whole point of this post you might say but ...... WHY can't i find it even in the manuals!! (eg https://bit.ly/EspaceJE_Clutch)

a parts number anywhere?

also...
3D printers .. could this be a solution for such plastic parts? is there a material as durable available for 3D printing parts?

cheers,
Pan

[roy4matra]

This seems like an end to an era. And it is very sad. I already have a JE under my scope... It is for sale near me and nobody wants it. Stationary for since 2015 (imagine the plastic parts sitting there, getting worse every day.... )
Now with such news, on one hand you want to avoid any Matra Espace ΙII for the obvious reasons, but on the other hand if you don't get one now... you will never get one!!

Since we talked about this and you highly recomended that i should drop such plans, this master clutch cylinder has become a nightmare to me.

[snipped long quote]

Where is this thing? why i can't find it in any car parts online shop?

No one wants it, because you can't get parts for them and they are a liability!

The part is listed in the old Dialogys parts system and I can look them up on my copy, (but they are not in the section on the clutch but in the pedal controls section) and since they have not been available for a long time, you won't find them listed on-line as there is absolutely no point!

WHY can't i find it even in the manuals!! (eg https://bit.ly/EspaceJE_Clutch) a parts number anywhere?

First that drawing relates to a different version of the Espace III (and clutch) anyway as it shows an internal annular slave cylinder. (dotted outline)  The sealed version no longer available, has an externally mounted slave cylinder and one version has a short link cable, which breaks too and is not available.

However, as I have just stated, they are not where you think they might be.  You would normally expect to see a clutch master cylinder listed in the clutch section (section 20) but since these are a completely sealed clutch hydraulic system not just a master cylinder, they are not in section 20.

also...
3D printers .. could this be a solution for such plastic parts? is there a material as durable available for 3D printing parts?

Again as I have pointed out it is a sealed system (on RHD models) that includes a clutch master cylinder, a long pre-shaped plastic and metal pipe, a snap coupling, a further pre-shaped pipe, and a slave cylinder, and it covers a large area.  You could never 3D print it!  (And if it was possible, certainly not for the small numbers required and at an affordable price)

Roy

[Brad]

In case you have not visited my website and FAQ pages for some time, I have now added another couple of pages regarding the Espace III, mainly to warn prospective owners of the fact that some necessary items are no longer available anywhere, and if one of these fails you could have a vehicle you can't repair.  Well you might be able to repair it if you design and make something yourself, but you won't be able to simply buy a manufacturer spare!

Roy

A fair warning, indeed.

I have two 2001/2 Grand Espace  III 3.0 24v cars which, thankfully, are running well. One has done almost 55000 miles (Privilege) and the other 65000 miles (Initiale).

I am concerned about brittle plastics, wet ECUs and a fear that a simple need for a new windscreen might write off one of these cars.

But that’s the joy, isn’t it. The challenge. After 43 years of Renaults from a lovely but rusted out Renault 10 via a selection of 5, 6, another 10, 17, 19, 25, 30, Safrane, six Vel Satis, three Avantimes and five Espaces ..I have learned to find a way around a number of issues. My current everyday car is a 3.5 Vel Satis and it is incredibly reliable and cheap to maintain.

I hope there are members on this forum much more knowledgeable than me as I fear help might be needed with my two Mark III cars very soon.

Cheers.

Brad

[roy4matra]

... and a fear that a simple need for a new windscreen might write off one of these cars.

Brad

A windscreen is one thing you probably can get although it might be a little more costly than when these Espace III were in current production or just after.

If you need glass, particularly a windscreen for something unusual, always try UROglas because I have been dealing with them since the nineties and they still stock windscreens for the Murena which is now 40 years old!  An Espace I owner in the 'States needed a new screen after a part of a tree dropped on his, fortunately when parked, and even though they did not have one at the time, one was made and provided for £600.

They can even offer heated windscreens for cars that didn't have them originally, although again if done as a one-off they might be something like £600.  I've actually considered one for my Murena as it would be a lovely addition to it.

Roy

[mickc]

... and a fear that a simple need for a new windscreen might write off one of these cars.

Brad

A windscreen is one thing you probably can get although it might be a little more costly than when these Espace III were in current production or just after.

If you need glass, particularly a windscreen for something unusual, always try UROglas because I have been dealing with them since the nineties and they still stock windscreens for the Murena which is now 40 years old!  An Espace I owner in the 'States needed a new screen after a part of a tree dropped on his, fortunately when parked, and even though they did not have one at the time, one was made and provided for £600.

They can even offer heated windscreens for cars that didn't have them originally, although again if done as a one-off they might be something like £600.  I've actually considered one for my Murena as it would be a lovely addition to it.

Roy

Even some of the parts that could be substituted with alternatives can be a challenge. See:-
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,3426.0.html

I was really grateful that Roy directed me to:-
https://partsouq.com/en/catalog/genuine/vehicle?c=Renault&ssd=%24%2AKwHP--rHt9GzkKLEzrjp_5eDo6S6y8TJyNrJxL3NhZeYko6ay87Tr5OUjr2xysja2tePmZWOvbHKyNrd38-8ys_EycPMkZODywAAAAAvBDEL%24&vid=1236&cid=75565&q=

I have two Grande Espaces: The 2002 (over 130k miles) is currently being renovated (Again!!!) and I'm still getting bits off the 1998 donor. Mind you, the latter really is starting to rust underneath to the point where I might need to take it to the scrapman in carrier bags. Most of the good stuff is stored away. But I think I may need the windscreen from it before too long. I wonder what one does about SORN when you scrap a car in stages.

I see the Espace III as a collectors item that needs to have a presence well into the future.

[roy4matra]

I wonder what one does about SORN when you scrap a car in stages...

Actually if read the rules, you are not supposed to scrap a car yourself now.  It must be taken or collected by an officially registered vehicle dismantler, who will confirm to DVLA that it has been scrapped correctly.

This really applies to the chassis in the case of the Espace, with separate chassis and composite bodywork.  So you can strip it as much as you like of all the things you want to save, but then it should be 'sold' to a dismantler who then becomes the owner and informs DVLA.  I've done this with two Espace Series I, stripped them of just about everything and then called the dismantler to ask them to pick up the chassis and take it away.  They even paid me £40 for the last one, saying they were sorry they couldn't offer more, but that was because the body was not metal!

The funny thing was on the phone the woman taking the call told me not to forget to give the driver picking it up the keys for the vehicle.  She wasn't aware that when I said it was stripped and needed to be picked up, that it really was stripped of everything, including locks and ignition switch so there was no point in them having the keys! (which I kept, to go with the locks of course)

Roy

[suffolkpete]

For a windscreen it may also be worth talking to Pilkington.  They can supply a windscreen for the Murena so they may be able to for the Espace, although their prices will probably be more than URO.

[roy4matra]

For a windscreen it may also be worth talking to Pilkington.  They can supply a windscreen for the Murena so they may be able to for the Espace, although their prices will probably be more than URO.

UROglas generally do get their glasses from Pilkington  as I know they told me the Murena ones are usually from them. So the chances are that UROglas ask Pilkington for a batch (say 5) and then they keep them in their stock. But always try both anyway.

Roy