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Author Topic: JE 2.2dCi engine info  (Read 16301 times)
TheJoker
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« on: December 19, 2006, 12:54:23 pm »

Guys,

I had a look in: http://www.matrasport.dk/vault/Espace/JE/
and apparently the information there only pertains to the 8 valve engine, not the 16 valve 2.2dCi engine..?

Does anyone know where I could get info on the 2.2dCi engine, and especially cam-belt change.

Thanks!
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TheJoker
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 03:58:33 pm »

This is the particular part we're interested in knowing.
Quote
I'm interested in what chain setup is behind the covers from the bottom pulley up to the jack shaft, weather there is a tensioner in there?

Can anyone shed any light on this..?  Huh
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 05:21:14 pm »

Check again ... :-)
Somebody had forgotten to drop the special PDF on the G9T engine  3444A.pdf - not that I think it has the info you need (its only "special features of the G9T")

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
TheJoker
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 05:40:36 pm »

Thanks for the PDF Lennart - but as you suspect, I don't think it's what my friend is looking for.... Hmmm.... Smiley
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Martin Tyas
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2006, 11:30:53 am »

Both the accessories and timing belts have tensioners which should be replaced at the same time as the belts.
The accessories belt is also sometimes referred to by vehicle technicians as the serpentine belt due the way it is coiled around so many pulleys.

There is no "chain setup" behind the timing cover.... the timing system is belt driven but housed behind a timing cover similar to that which you would find on an engine having a chain or gear train driven timing system.

As the water pump is every bit as inaccessible without the major strip down required to cahnge the belts then I would seriously consider changing it at the same time along with replacing the coolant which should also be done every 4 years or 72k miles.
Also, especially if you are thinking of keeping the car for some time, as the right hand one of the two drive shafts has to be removed in order to allow the engine to be raised and lowered to gain acces to the timing cover, the belt and tensionser you may want to examine the drive shaft gaiters (if they haven't already been replaced) and get them done at the same time. In relative terms they cost very little compared to the labour time required to replace them and you will already have most of the strip down covered for one side at least.

Martin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
TheJoker
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2006, 02:53:45 pm »

Thanks Martin.

The guy fixing the car, Giles, is going to replace the water pump too, just for the reasons you describe. However, he said something to me about some aluminium panel or something that he can see when he's got the cambelt covers off. And he's wondering what's behind this panel. As he said in an email:

Quote
I'm interested in what chain setup is behind the covers from the bottom pulley up to the jack shaft, weather there is a tensioner in there?

So he's not referring to a cam-chain, but another chain somewhere - sorry I can't provide much more information. I guess the best thing would be to have tons of pictures of the engine in parts. Smiley

Thanks again!
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cranky
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2007, 08:50:10 pm »

 Smiley Hi all, this is my first post "go easy"   Grin
         I recently bought an Espace with a 2.2 DCi engine, I'am hoping that somebody can help me with some information regarding a cambelt and tensioner change. I have been dreading changing the cambelt because of the work involved and the lack of a suitable manual.
         I have read with interest the threads on here and have decided to jump in at the deep end and have a go.
        I have got to the stage where the belt is exposed and ready to be removed. I'am ready to lock the cams and crankshaft.
        I have several questions that I would like to ask,   
1/ where the TDC crankshaft locking point is located.
2/ what dia hole is in the crank to accept a locking pin.
3/do the flats behind the cam wheels line up horizontally with the cam cover joint when the engine is at TDC.
4/where is the water pump located (and should It be renewed now)
5/ I have not as yet had to remove the drive shaft, hub assembly, calliper, exhaust or air con pipes, things are real tight but It looks as though there is just about enough room to remove the tensioner/idler pulleys and belt.
6/ Is the injector pump gear driven.
7/ when I removed the engine under tray I noticed a metal pipe with a Diameter of around 1" coming across and forward from the passenger side, finishing in the middle of the car and in the area behind the sump. Should this be connected to something as at the moment it isn't   Shocked       
 8/ Is there a link to a DCi engine drawing or better still some info about a cambelt change.
        Hoping to have another go tomorrow If our luverly Brit weather allows fingers crossed, then I can move on to the pleasures of cleaning EGR valves and the like   
                 Looking forward to any input, Thanks in advance.  cranky   Grin
 


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Martin Tyas
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2007, 11:08:57 pm »

Hi Cranky and welcome

I think that almost all of your questions are answered within a Renault Technical Note covering the G9T (2.2dCi) engine that I have attached.
Section 11 covers the timing and accessories belt and Section 19 the cooling system and water pump.

I was going to tackle the job myself but in the end didn't have time so took the pain on the plastic card after taking it into a Renault dealer (the belt kit, which includes the tensioner, was £119.99, the accessories belt a further £17.20 and the labour to fit them £325.00... all plus VAT)
I was also to an extent put off by what I had read at the time regarding accessibility to the timing belt and the need to remove all sorts of other bits a pieces such as drive shafts, exhaust and air-con pipework to allow the engine to be raised and lowered in order to gain sufficient access. However, after already having had the job done by a dealer I later found that none of that was actually necessary for the 2.2dCi engine and that as you have found, although tight, it can be done with just the R/H front wheel and the plastic inner wing panel removed.
As I had the full 72,000 mile service done at the same time (total cost £1046.61 incl VAT  Cry ), which also includes a coolant drain and renewal, I asked them to replace the water pump whilst they had the system drained and had already gained access to the pump after removing the belts.... but they phoned me whilst it was in the shop to advise that the engine needed to be removed to change the water pump. According to Section 19 of the Technical Note the water pump can be changed without removing the engine so either they didn't know what they were doing, didn't have the sense to read Renault's technical notes or the mechanic felt that he had already taken enough skin off his knuckles and didn't want to remove any more!!

Now for two of your questions not directly answered from within the technical note.
6) yes... the high pressure fuel pump is gear driven
7) if it's the one I think that you are referring to then it's the exhaust for the engine coolant heater and in that case no it shouldn't be connected to anything. The 2.2dCi in the Espace has a system for heating the engine coolant in cold weather conditions. It's an Eberspächer unit similar to the night heater system for truck cabs and it heats up the coolant so that the engine reaches optimum operating temperature quicker and can also therefore provide quicker passenger compartment heating and demisting. More information on that system is contained in section 61 but it doesn't show the pipe in question. However, if you take a look at the diagram on Section 16-2 you can see it coming from the left hand side then backwards past the side of the sump.

Hope this helps and that you have good weather and manage to get the job done.
Let us know how you get on.

Martin
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 11:18:40 pm by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
cranky
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 10:08:09 pm »

 
 Hi Martin,
              I managed to complete the cambelt/tensioner and idler pulley change and thought I would share my experience with the forum  Smiley
    Once the following had been removed- engine undertray, wheel, wheel arch panel, air cleaner assembly, Top engine mount and the plastic cambelt cover (a ratchet 10 mm spanner was useful on the cover bolts)
     With the crankshaft locked I knocked up a tool from a length of angle that sat across the flats on the cams behind the cam wheels and bolted down into the two convenient bolt holes in the head.
      Next the tensioner and belt were removed but for love nor money no way would the idler pulley bolt come out (it was hitting the inner wheel arch) Sad
      I had 2 options -
     1/ the removal of hub, driveshaft etc etc to get the bolt below the inner wing or after a little measuring-
     2/ use a small tank cutter to drill/cut a hole through the 2 skins from under the wheel arch. With this done the bolt had the clearance for removal along with the pulley. Later both holes had a rubber grommet popped into them.
       On reassembly I found the new belt was to tight to go round all the cam wheels and pulleys, so after a lot of umming and aarghing I realised that it would be ok to remove the inlet cam wheel unscrewing the 3 x 6 mm bolts, make sure the inlet wheel and camshaft are marked, white paint pen or similar (also slacken the 3 bolts on the exhaust cam wheel as this allows the new belt to mesh more easily)                                                                                                             
      The tensioner is now temporarily locked in it's slackest position, now route the belt and lastly place the inlet cam wheel into mesh with the belt  (line the paint marks up so that bolt holes do) then gently push/pull cam wheel over the camshaft end and replace the bolts       
      Now with all 6 cam wheel bolts half a turn loose adjust the belt tensioner with an Allen key until the pointer lines up with the middle of the two prongs (there are 4 prongs on the backing plate as you look at it, the 2 on the left straddle a roll pin the 2 on the right are for the pointer) finally lock the centre nut and now tighten all 6 cam wheel bolts.
      Please note- both cam wheels have slotted bolt holes, these allow spot on valve timing.
       Double triple check everything is correct, when satisfied remove locking tools then gently turn the engine over 3 or 4 times. I also ran the engine up and then readjusted the belt before fitting the plastic cover, this is worth doing as once the belt had centralised more adjustment was needed  Wink
       I also removed the EGR and it's housing and associated pipe, then carefully scrapped the carbon deposits away then washed in paraffin (the EGR and pipe are both originals according to the information on this site, so I will keep an eye out for early signs of failure)
       Martin thank you for explaining what the pipe behind the sump was for. (overflow for the Eberspächer unit)
I think I have a problem connected to this Cheesy,
       when the engine is now run up after a short while white smoke turning to black is emitted from this pipe, It would appear that the smoke is unburnt diesel.
      Am I right in thinking that this unit uses derv for it's heat source, do you think I have inadvertently either blown a fuse or knocked a wiring connector off the heater unit.
        I am going to have a look at this tomorrow, again thank you for your advice, if anyone can help it would be much appreciated,     cranky  Smiley   
                                                            Turned out nice again "Mother"  Grin     
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 09:54:46 am by cranky » Logged
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2007, 09:21:18 am »

Excellent, Cranky - big congrats on the job.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

It doesn't sound that difficult - easier than sending a man to the moon Wink

- Anders
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Martin Tyas
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2007, 10:15:26 am »

Nice job Grin .... pleased that you managed to very successfully work your way through the process... and I reiterate Anders' comments and thank you for sharing your experiences.

I wouldn't worry too much about the coolant heater. They are very robust and reliable.... Eberspächer have made enough of them over many years to have got it just about right  Wink
And, as you have had white smoke (and that distinctive smell?) from it.... which is normal.... then it is obviously igniting and burning the diesel OK. The black smoke is, as you say, likley to be unburnt diesel but unless the black smoke persists for any length of time I don't think you have a problem because it will simply be the diesel remaining in the system after the burner has shut down once the coolant temperature has been raised sufficiently.

Regarding the EGR. So far I have only removed carbon from the EGR valve ports & diaphragms and haven't removed the diffuser for cleaning but if (or rather when) I next get a problem I will remove and clean the whole housing as Roy with his Renault dealership experience recommends.... it's more than likley that the particles of carbon that dislodge and find themselves wedged between the diaphragm and seat come from somewhere in that aluminium housing.
The pipe on mine is stainless steel but with a cast flange so is at half way house in terms of the design changes implemented over time by Renault as they progressed from all cast through to all stainless steel. I can undestand how the smoother walls of a stainless steel tube are less likely to allow carbon build up compared to the relatively rough surface of a cast component. However, I am less convinced that the latest design EGR valve will actually make any difference to the reliabilty of operation of the valve.
I recently got a new and unused latest spec EGR from a Fee-Pay auction at about half the price of one from a Renault dealer. I haven't fitted it yet... just holding on to it as a spare ready for when the existing unit sticks again. Having compared old with new the ports and diaphragms (which are after all the part of the valve that clogs up with carbon) are identical. The externally visible difference is the solenoid housing which instead of being steel is now plastic.
The actuation of the EGR valve is mechanical (spring pressure) to close and solenoid to open. The usual problem with the valve is that it is held open by carbon deposits or particles of carbon that wedge between one of the diaphragms and it's valve seat. So unless someone can tell me that with the new type valve they have increased the spring pressure in an attempt to help overcome the effects of dislodged carbon particles... and that the new plastic body houses a stronger solenoid to compensate for the stonger spring pressure... then my feeling is that it is no more than a product development (read - production cost reduction) excercise and will have no direct impact upon the performance or reliability of the EGR valve in operation. I hope that after fitting the new valve I can retract that statement but at the moment I remain cynical

Martin
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 11:38:00 am by Martin Tyas » Logged

1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
cranky
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2007, 01:53:44 pm »

Hi all, Update, I had been running the engine up without the auxiliary belt on, once a new belt was fitted the only smoke from the heater pipe was white on starting, this then cleared so all is ok now  Wink was the missing belt the cause I have no idea  Undecided
   Everthing is now back together, the only problem being that the diesel pipe between the filter and high pressure pump came adrift  Shocked guilty! I didn't push it on far enough. Luckily I was stood listening to the engine at the time so was able to turn the ignition off sharpish.
   Can someone please advise me I have another question. As soon as the engine starts the radiator fan kicks in, is the sender unit likely to be stuck open and where is it located ? I have only owned the car for 2 weeks so am still finding my way around under the bonnet.
  So far I am well pleased with the car and intend to change the oil/filter and Derv filter next and perhaps have a look at the low pressure fuel pump if there is any sign of metal swarf  Shocked   Cheers cranky
                                                             Turned out nice again "Mother"  Grin     
                                               
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 05:50:50 pm by cranky » Logged
Martin Tyas
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2007, 06:19:43 pm »

   Can someone please advise me I have another question. As soon as the engine starts the radiator fan kicks in, is the sender unit likely to be stuck open and where is it located ?

More liklely to be the air-con fan. If you leave the climate control set to "Auto" the fan kicks in as soon as you start the engine... and doesn't stop until you switch off  Roll Eyes

Martin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
cranky
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Posts: 4


« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2007, 08:56:14 pm »

Oooops  Embarrassed    you were bang on, air con was switched on  Shocked I must get round to reading the cars handbook  Grin
                                                                     Kind Regards, cranky   Smiley
                                                                         
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