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Author Topic: Heater leak... the next stage in my Espace story!  (Read 8974 times)
José V. Gavilá
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1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« on: May 19, 2007, 06:37:40 pm »

Hello my friends,

Well, my Espace has still another problem  Angry... since I bought it, a couple years ago, there was some coolant smell when using air conditioner  Undecided . Now, after the small repair (the one at 4800 EUR  Shocked ), I have found that driver's feet place had some coolant and, looking upside, it comes from a plastic box just over feet. I guess it should be heater, am I right  Huh ?

Also, compared to the nightmare getting the Citroen XM heater out, it seems as a relatively simple task. Am I right or it is just easy to see and hard to replace  Cry ?. Please, let me know your experiences on this fault.

Thanks a lot!

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
tka
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Posts: 24



« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2007, 10:56:37 pm »

Hi Jose,

Yes, it's the heater module allright.... Common Espace problem. And as for the Citroen XM's I guess the leak develops between the aluminium radiator element and the plastic endpiece at which hoses connect etc.

Unfortunately the Espace's - as the XM's and probably many other cars - seems to be more or less put together around the heater element!! - Meaning that officially the change of a radiator involves total dismantling the board, connection to CLIP for safely controlling airbags etc.

I've for Espace's not yet seen or heart of a 'hack', like the XM one (which involves cutting the radiator element casing, and thereby being able to whristle things out, actually without to much troubles). - But, this might just not have been invented yet??

However, I do know that there are different radiator module designs in circulation. One having it's plastic part split into two, which means that at least hoses can probably be removed relatively easy. The other one... well, that seems fairly more difficult to approach!

Unfortunately not a perfect how-to-do, Jose. - And I'm very interested to hear of any further progress of yours, since I own an Espace, year 2000 with all the usual problems: Dripping left hand heater, flickering central display, defect VVT faseshifter...

BR /tka

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Thomas K-A, Esp. 2.016V, 2000
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2007, 11:11:03 pm »

Hi José

You are right, it's the heater.

I'm afraid there is no easy way here - you need to take most (if not all) of the dash apart. It is fairly logically built up so it's not that difficult but there are many parts that are interconnected in different ways. Some panels are fitted over each other, so you need to take one off to get to the other.

I have never stripped my Espace's it as far down as you now need to, but I have disassembled parts of the dash before and I find it isn't that bad to work with: Things align well and the entire assembly is logically built. It's far better than the early Espace's.

I have found the ETAI Espace DIY manual useful, it has a reasonably good description of the procedure. It's in french though, but the illustrations are universal Wink

Good luck with it!

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
***
Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2007, 01:00:06 pm »

Hi Tka,

Thanks for your message!

Hi Jose,

Yes, it's the heater module allright.... Common Espace problem. And as for the Citroen XM's I guess the leak develops between the aluminium radiator element and the plastic endpiece at which hoses connect etc.

Unfortunately the Espace's - as the XM's and probably many other cars - seems to be more or less put together around the heater element!! - Meaning that officially the change of a radiator involves total dismantling the board, connection to CLIP for safely controlling airbags etc.

I've for Espace's not yet seen or heart of a 'hack', like the XM one (which involves cutting the radiator element casing, and thereby being able to whristle things out, actually without to much troubles). - But, this might just not have been invented yet??

However, I do know that there are different radiator module designs in circulation. One having it's plastic part split into two, which means that at least hoses can probably be removed relatively easy. The other one... well, that seems fairly more difficult to approach!

Unfortunately not a perfect how-to-do, Jose. - And I'm very interested to hear of any further progress of yours, since I own an Espace, year 2000 with all the usual problems: Dripping left hand heater, flickering central display, defect VVT faseshifter...

BR /tka


I hoped it would be easier, as you can actually see the heater matrix casing... but, well, as I suspected, it is not that easy  Sad

BTW, my unit seems to be the split parts type, if with that you mean that casing is made of two parts joined by screws... I hope so!

Put in perspective, I think I know what happened... when coolant / oil problem was addressed by Renault garage, they used some cleaning liquid to get the oil out of the circuit (they told me so). I guess it 'cleaned' also the leaking hole in the matrix with the results we all know  Sad

I think will do a final attempt to fix it without getting out the board, by using an stop leak liquid. It could work, at least for some time, while I source a heather matrix replacement and find some time to do the work... because last thing I want to do it to take again the car to the Renault garage  Angry Angry

I will let you know how things progress.

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
***
Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 01:03:05 pm »

Hi Anders,

Hi José

You are right, it's the heater.

I'm afraid there is no easy way here - you need to take most (if not all) of the dash apart. It is fairly logically built up so it's not that difficult but there are many parts that are interconnected in different ways. Some panels are fitted over each other, so you need to take one off to get to the other.

I have never stripped my Espace's it as far down as you now need to, but I have disassembled parts of the dash before and I find it isn't that bad to work with: Things align well and the entire assembly is logically built. It's far better than the early Espace's.

I have found the ETAI Espace DIY manual useful, it has a reasonably good description of the procedure. It's in french though, but the illustrations are universal Wink

Good luck with it!

- Anders


Well, as written in previous message, I will try to do a fast fix, even if temporary, and then will go the hard way.

I have just a German book about Espace but have already ordered the ETAI one. Thanks for the hint!. BTW, does somebody have the L'EA book (also French)?. Is it worth its price?

Thanks!

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2007, 07:33:09 pm »

ll, as written in previous message, I will try to do a fast fix, even if temporary, and then will go the hard way.

It really isn't that hard, so if you can do without the car a few days then you will do you car a favour Wink by doing the full strip down. Now that you've had your cooling system mended for a large amount I think it would make sense to do it properly in the first place. I understand that you don't want to challenge your Renault garage with the job, though - stripping the dash is a time consuming procedure and they will charge the same rate for simple as well as difficult jobs.

Quote
I have just a German book about Espace but have already ordered the ETAI one. Thanks for the hint!. BTW, does somebody have the L'EA book (also French)?. Is it worth its price?

I don't know it - the ETAI is really good, I think - though not really covering our cars since the V6 isn't discussed. The German is better there, but the ETAI is just perfect IMO with brief and precise descriptions of all procedures, AND good drawings. Much better than Haynes' manuals for example.

Thanks!

JOSE
[/quote]
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
tka
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Posts: 24



« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2007, 10:41:20 pm »

Hi Jose,

Since I have not had my Espace dissambled down to the heater elements, what I know for now comes from pictures etc. found on the Internet. - Therefore guessing here:

The heater modules for the Espace seems to be same construction as the Cit XM one (did exchange this twice on my own 2.0 CT), and the problem with those is, that they eventually develop a leak along the rubber seal between the aluminium 'grill' element and the plastic endpiece of the unit. Since this leak has more of 'crack nature' than 'plain hole nature', liquid sealer might actually keep you going for quite some time (Espace-Freunde.de has some examples on that). BUT since rubber seal is rather soft and alive, be prepared that the leak also can come back and develop rather sudden.

There are many different opinions (and a few horror stories too) about using liquid sealer in the cooling system. I'm not to judge, but of course you should always beware, that the sealer only seals where intended, - and not at any other small passages in the system.

Good luck

/tka

Thomas K-A, Denmark, Y2000 Esp. 2.016V   
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Thomas K-A, Esp. 2.016V, 2000
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
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Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


WWW
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2007, 10:58:55 pm »

Hi Thomas,

Hi Jose,

Since I have not had my Espace dissambled down to the heater elements, what I know for now comes from pictures etc. found on the Internet. - Therefore guessing here:

The heater modules for the Espace seems to be same construction as the Cit XM one (did exchange this twice on my own 2.0 CT), and the problem with those is, that they eventually develop a leak along the rubber seal between the aluminium 'grill' element and the plastic endpiece of the unit. Since this leak has more of 'crack nature' than 'plain hole nature', liquid sealer might actually keep you going for quite some time (Espace-Freunde.de has some examples on that). BUT since rubber seal is rather soft and alive, be prepared that the leak also can come back and develop rather sudden.

There are many different opinions (and a few horror stories too) about using liquid sealer in the cooling system. I'm not to judge, but of course you should always beware, that the sealer only seals where intended, - and not at any other small passages in the system.

Good luck

/tka

Thomas K-A, Denmark, Y2000 Esp. 2.016V   

Yes, I am afraid of breaking something else and, now that there are no leaks in the circuit (let's hope!) besides the obvious one (heater matrix) and I have spent a large amount on it, yes, it sounds better to do it right.

I will start looking for heater matrixes (as, BTW, I think it would be good to replace both of them, driver and passenger, same time)

Could you let me know a link for the pictures you mention?. It would be good to start thinking on the problem...

About the XM, mine is also a 2.0 Turbo CT:

http://jvgavila.com/xm.htm

and, yes, I replaced the heater matrix but did it without breaking anything. It took some hours but result was perfect. BTW, my car had both a bad matrix and also corroded metal pipes  Shocked !

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
tka
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2007, 07:55:27 pm »

Hi José,

Here is a link for a PDF containing lots of pictures. The following text is written in german, you'll have to live with that:-|

http://www.espacefreunde.de/forum/index.php/fa/8715/

BR
/tka

PS. I also did manage to get the XM heater out without the cutting part. Not to much space though! - This seems not to be possible on the Espace. Considering the amount of work suggested by the PDF, it would indeed be nice to invent some trick, however!!
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Thomas K-A, Esp. 2.016V, 2000
tka
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2007, 08:00:45 pm »

...hm, didn't work. how about this then


http://www.espacefreunde.de:80/forum/index.php/fa/8715/

:-)
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Thomas K-A, Esp. 2.016V, 2000
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
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Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007, 02:58:57 pm »

Hello!

...hm, didn't work. how about this then


http://www.espacefreunde.de:80/forum/index.php/fa/8715/

:-)


Oops, it doesn't work!. If it is a PDF document, could you send it to me?

Thanks!

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
tka
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007, 07:15:14 pm »

Hi José,

I think it will actually work, if you paste the address into your browser and then press <Enter> (you should then see a message box asking whether to open or save the PDF)

If this still doesn't work I try finding it again and send directly...

BR /tka
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Thomas K-A, Esp. 2.016V, 2000
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
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Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 10:28:10 pm »

Hi Tka,

Hi José,

I think it will actually work, if you paste the address into your browser and then press <Enter> (you should then see a message box asking whether to open or save the PDF)

If this still doesn't work I try finding it again and send directly...

BR /tka

Sorry, it doesn't work  Embarrassed

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
tka
Newbie
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Posts: 24



« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2007, 07:25:38 pm »

...hm, must be some security issue?

Try this then http://www.atelier-amalie.dk/images/Heater_Element.pdf

/tka
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Thomas K-A, Esp. 2.016V, 2000
José V. Gavilá
Full Member
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Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 10:14:18 pm »

Hi Tka,

...hm, must be some security issue?

Try this then http://www.atelier-amalie.dk/images/Heater_Element.pdf

/tka

OK, perfect!. Now I see the work  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked !!!

The Bar's Leaks option sounds really tempting  Undecided !!!

I will let you know what I finally do.

Regards,

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
SPAIN

http://jvgavila.com
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