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Author Topic: New Clutch?  (Read 16396 times)
krede
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« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2008, 01:00:14 pm »

Quote
So you are running again?

I sure hope so!!!..Since I'm taking it to Herning later today to watch The Superbowl with a couple of mates from my time in Iraq... would be a crappy to get stuck halfway.... "clutchless" ... while the beers just get warmer and warmer!!!  Shocked Shocked
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 01:02:36 pm by krede » Logged
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2008, 02:23:11 pm »

I finished replacing my clutch slave cylinder today, which was leaking.

I took the old one apart, which is easy - the piston just has to be pressed out of the cylinder from the opening (e.g. using a small screw driver). To my surprise, the seal was not really worn, but there was a lot of dirt inside, and I think the leak was actually caused by the dirt and not the seal. It can enter through the rod end, which is not sealed that well, but it's difficult to tell.

Has anyone found spare seals for this part? I know a kit was offered by Talbot for the Tagora. The cylinder seems to be very easy to repair, and even simpler than the master cylinder.

Photos of the procedure:
http://gallery.dinsen.net/v/biler/Murena/technical/clutchslave/

- Anders
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 03:10:02 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Oetker
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« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2008, 07:30:53 pm »

Looks like a standard brake cilinder seal to me.
Is it also 20.6 mm 13/16" ?

The dirt Looks like sand in the oil, but how does it get there.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 07:37:08 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2008, 09:32:50 am »

Looks like a standard brake cilinder seal to me.
Is it also 20.6 mm 13/16" ?

The dirt Looks like sand in the oil, but how does it get there.

Through the rod seal, I think. The cylinder sits quite exposed and whenever the pedal is released, a bit of air is sucked in on the back side of the piston. Small particles can make their way through and will then work down into the cylinder. In my case the cylinder was very dirty inside. There's probably very little to do about this - except fit a protective cover around the cylinder, rod and clutch release fork. Or be prepared to service the cylinder with regular intervals?
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2008, 09:01:10 am »

Anyone remember this discussion?

My clutch master started leaking again - it was only 1 1/2 years old and should have lasted a lot longer. When I did the clutch slave, there was a lot of dirt. I thought it came in from the outside, but I was wrong. I had a good discussion about the issue with Roy over e-mail, and we found out that it was likely to be a problem caused by dirt buildup inside the system. This can happen with silicone brake fluid if the system is not cleaned completely. Here's a photo of the result - no wonder it leaked!


(this is the piston in the master cylinder, in case you don't recognise the part Wink )

In this case, I think the problem is caused by not stripping and cleaning the new master cylinder before fitting it. It was probably well greased when I got it to prevent corrosion - and here's the result Sad

I'll clean it again, refit it - and let's see if the problem happens again. The great thing about silicone brake fluid is that it protects all seals and - in theory - the system should be maintenance free, even if the car is left unused for some time.

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Oetker
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« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2008, 10:14:07 am »

WOW, If this is caused by reaction of silicon and DOT4, I stay at DOT4.
Silicon can be better for the seals, but if DOT4 can keep the car on the road for 25 years there is no need to change.
I think it will be difficult to get all traces of DOT4 out a older system, and only if the system is completely renewed, better not to go that way.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 10:18:31 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
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« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2008, 10:19:13 am »

WOW, If this is caused by reaction of silicon and DOT4, I stay at DOT4.
Silicon can be better for the seals, but if DOT4 can keep the car on the road for 25 years there is no need to change.
I think it will be difficult to get all traces of DOT4 out a older system, and only if the system is completely renewed, its better not to go that way.

It's not a reaction between DOT4 and DOT5 - more likely left over HC based grease in the cylinder combined with normal wear. The piston has worn down a bit and is 0.5 mm oval (notice how bright it is on the photo). I assume that the aluminum particles from this wear, combined with the grease has lead to this buildup. DOT5 and DOT4 brake fluids are generally miscible, but shouldn't be as it will nullify all the advantages of the silicone based brake fluid.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 10:21:03 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Oetker
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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2008, 10:34:26 am »

quote
--------
I assume that the aluminum particles from this wear,
------------------------------------------------------------------

That could be it.
Its the same dirt you had in the slave.
Hope for you it wil stay leakproof for a while, but with a oval cilinder it wil be a matter of time I think.
Better try to find a new cilinder
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Anders Dinsen
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Posts: 2822



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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2008, 11:36:00 am »

quote
--------
I assume that the aluminum particles from this wear,
------------------------------------------------------------------

That could be it.
Its the same dirt you had in the slave.
Hope for you it wil stay leakproof for a while, but with a oval cilinder it wil be a matter of time I think.
Better try to find a new cilinder

Well the piston doesn't seal anything, and I've fitted new seals. They were slightly worn from working in the dirt, so I could just as well do them now that I had the thing apart. The cylinder is fine inside.

When I put it together, I'll avoid any grease, and only lubricate it with the brake fluid. That's the correct way to do it, and this is the big difference between DOT5 and the other "DOT's": Silicone brake fluid lubricates - other brake fluids don't. And the brilliant thing about the silicone is that it doesn't make the seals softer as HC-based oils do. Last, it doesn't absorb moisture, so the brake fluid will never need to be replaced as alcohol based fluids do. Finally it's non toxic. A properly cleaned and prepared brake system with DOT5 should be virtually maintenance free - mine wasn't obviously! Wink
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 11:40:12 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2008, 08:00:46 pm »

Job is done now, inbetween shopping and looking after the children. Two more photos:


Clean piston with new seals.


All the parts, and a few from the old unit I replaced 1 1/2 years ago.

I'm rolling again Cheesy
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
krede
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« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2008, 08:18:21 am »

Quote
and looking after the children
Amazing that you got it done then!! Wink

I do wonder if it is bossible to obtain some soet of repair kit for these cylinders...
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Oetker
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« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2008, 10:34:05 am »

This firm delivers brakemaster repairkits for Volvo 340.

http://www.biggred.co.uk/

This kits have the 20.6mm seals that fits the clutchmastercilinder.

I think there are a lot more possebillitys to find the right seals.
a lot of peugeots have also 20.6 seals in there brakemastercilinders.
Look in the brakesection of this site and see howmany fit the 20.6 description.

http://www.pugspares.co.uk/Main.asp (temp of line for maintanance)

I didn't find the seals seperate for sale yet.
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Anders Dinsen
Administrator
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Posts: 2822



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« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2008, 11:30:54 am »

Quote
and looking after the children
Amazing that you got it done then!! Wink

Well, you can do a lot of tricks with rope Tongue

Seriously, I like multitasking Wink

About repair kit, yes it would be brilliant if someone could come up with a kit, but it would really have to include the piston, which scrapes on the sides of the cylinder when the pedal is operated and wears down to oval shape. I used the seals from a kit for a Volvo brake master cylinder I found in Biltema - unfortunately that they don't stock it any more Sad



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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
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