MatraSport Forum
Each model => Murena => Topic started by: krede on January 05, 2007, 01:08:20 pm
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In my quest for better suspention, I am finally down to considering the spax kit (not the one that replaces the torsion bars)..
But i think I remember reading somewhere that they tend to leak!... do anybody have eny experiences with these?
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Bernhard has experience and doesn't like them at all: "Beim Spax Fahrwerk titt oft das Problem auf, daß die hinteren Dämpfer eine sehr schwache Funktion zeigen, nachdem sie eingebaut werden. Dies kommt nicht nur von der schlechten Abstimmung und Qualität, sondern auch weil diese durch den Transport und die liegende Lagerung Luft im Dämpfungsöl haben. Der Grund ist die Konstruktion: der Luftraum zum Volumenausgleich ist nicht wie bei hochwertigen Einrohr-Gasdruckstoßdämpfern voneinander getrennt."
http://www.technikhomepage.de/kfz/fahrwerk/feder.html (http://www.technikhomepage.de/kfz/fahrwerk/feder.html)
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yahh.. I had a look around, and Bernard dosnt seem to be the only guy that's less then impressed by the spax kit.
Bilstein would be my first choice as Its my impression that they are generally regarded at the best dampers on the market (for the price)
Sadly it doesnt seem like they have anything for the murena, so I guess I will go for a set of konis (of witch I have heard only good things).
Ill then try to find some harder rear springs to go along with them, theres a place in the UK called "rally design" that have all sorts of different shapes and sizes.... Ive bought stuff from them before (for my manta) and it seemd ok... Now all i need is to find out the specs of the original murena springs.
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Hello krede :) I bought Murena 2,2S few months ago with Spax shock absorbers. The car was improoved by them in cca 1998, in 2001 was damaged the engine and than the car was standing outside for 5 years. I can say that they are clear with no leaking around.
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Bilstein is available here :
http://www.politecnic.com/amortisseurs.htm
instead of Spax fully adjustable please use GAZ !
http://www.gaz-shocks.com/
http://www.steijntaxaties.nl/ ( ask for Brit )
regards
Jos
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Jos!!.. your the man!!! thanks!!... the spax didnt really appeal to me anyway..
You wouldnt happen to know where to get stiffer rear springs aswell would you?
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Have you thought about using AVO shocks and springs. I used them on my previous classic and was very impressed they also repair their shocks as well if the seal goes in fact they will refurb them for you. There service is second to none!
I found them very helpful
Here is there web address
http://www.avouk.com/
And here is there e-mail address for any queries
sales@avouk.com
I do not work for AVO or have anything to do with AVO just want to pass on what I hope is useful info
Richard
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Any advice is welcome mate :).. however.. it appears to me they only make "replacement" dampers, and not complete kits for Talbot.
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Ive just heard back from GAZ, and they will make me a complete kit for just over £400 + vat and carrige.....next to the spax kit, thats very cheap if you ask me, and Ive used GAZ dampers before with no problems. So i think Ill go for it again.
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Is this for a standard setup or is it lowered?
- Anders
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I'm not sure.. but since they will have to make it specially for me, I guess I can choose :) ... anyway they write that its adjustable shocks AND adjustable springs.. so...
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Interesting!
Still using the torsion bars in the front, I hope?
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Yep... never felt for loosing the torsion bars in the first place.. and after What Lennart said about the frame twisting , its a no no for sure :)
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You are welcome Krede ;)
The Spax are indeed really overpriced at our beloved matra parts suppliers. Value for money is no good. Spax for my other car prove that. And there is Spax and Spax of course. Think they used a cheap dampener and worked their idea out from that for the Murena. Okay there are some developing costs/return on investment / stock etc. but the sales price is really crazy. Since Spax was the only possibility for the Murena if you want to lower/adjust etc they just kept the price high.
I do not know if it is tecnically possible but you could order a set with springs for the front and leave the springs out. Whenever you decide to go for springs in the front you can just remove the torsion bars and add the springs :-\
The set you order should be height adjustable ( rear only than ) plus damping adjustable of course ( uitgoing dampening that is )
Have a nice weekend 8)
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Yep.. the ones i have ordered are hight adjustable in the rear.. and use "coil over" dampers in front.. in addition to the torsionbars.. should be nice :).. any yep.. next to the spax kit, the GAZ one seems like good value indeed
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Very well. Hope you like the Gaz set. Please let me know by than.
Cheers
Jos
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Final Price for the complete gaz suspention totaled some 5803 Dkr including vat and carrage... I expect to recieve it in about 4 weeks time, then I'll let you know how it workes out
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Hi Krede...
I been way to busy for a long time, but know I'm hoping to finish my Murena 1.6 to 2.0 HDI conversion soon!
I'm starting to consider suspension setup, wheels and tyres and would love to hear some feedback from you?
I will probably need to have some height adjustment at the rear, as the HDI engine will sit a little different at the engine bay, though weight is pretty much the same. Also my standard 1.6 did sit slightly high at the rear before taking it all apart, and the new wheels and tyres will also alter the setup...
Anyone that have any input on using tyres as follows:
195/50-15
205/50-16
Reason is that I prefer same profile height and will need bigger diameter to suit the high tourque engine....
Kind regards,
Valdemar
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Anyone that have any input on using tyres as follows:
195/50-15
205/50-16
Reason is that I prefer same profile height and will need bigger diameter to suit the high tourque engine....
I think it will be a good match, and you will not be going so wide that the camber will be a problem (which you might if you were going for 225's). Also you will be running with the same front to rear ratio as the car was originally built for.
- Anders
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Im still waiting for the kit to arrive... but Ill let you know how it works out :)
But in while were wating... how about some pictures of that conversion ? ;D
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This came with then mailman today... 2 weeks ahead of schedule
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/krede/HPIM0374.gif)
Needless to say... Im ecstatic ;D
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Congrats on getting your new toy! ;)
But this is with coilovers at the front, thought you were going to keep the torsion bars?
Tell us your plans...
- Anders 8)
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It has a helper spring.. true... like the ones on the Tagora...
The torsionbars stay..
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It has a helper spring.. true... like the ones on the Tagora...
The torsionbars stay..
The Tagora uses a single McPherson strut with coilovers either side, no torsion bars.
Okay I see now that the front springs are quite thin compared to the rears (thread diameter half or so?)...
How are you going to tune it in? I suppose there's som standard settings on the dampers, or? Remember that changing the ride height at the rear changes the camber too, so that might actually be a way to tune cornering properties. Are these things really legal on the road in Denmark?
- Anders
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Im just gonna bolt it on and hope for the best :)
I wont change the ride hight... I never meant to!.. in fact that is one of the reasons I bought this kit.. that i dont have to lower the car to get harder suspention.
Is i legal... I have NO idea.... and frankly I have never given that a thought (perhaps I should have)
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Im just gonna bolt it on and hope for the best :)
I wont change the ride hight... I never meant to!.. in fact that is one of the reasons I bought this kit.. that i dont have to lower the car to get harder suspention.
They allow you to play a lot, so if you get a chance to get your car on a track a full day, try to set up a test programme to find the best setup for it.
Is i legal... I have NO idea.... and frankly I have never given that a thought (perhaps I should have)
Wasn't it Homer Simpson that said "It's better to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission"?? :D
- Anders
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Wasn't it Homer Simpson that said "It's better to beg forgiveness than to ask for permission"??
Uhh that dosnt apply only to Mr.Simpson... In fact.. Its widely used in the Army aswell (especially the Us Army.... want an example.. Iraq?? :) .. well I guess they sort of asked for permission to invade.. but when they didnt get it they did it anyway... and now they want forgiveness... oh my...)
This tactic has also served me well with good old mom.... and various female "acquaintances".. though in the latter case the "forgiveness" part, can turn out very expensive!!! ;)
Anyway.. back to topic.
I'll start out with the front dampers set to "stun" or in normal terms the softest possible...with the torsionbars still in place I figure I really dont need them any harder. (actually I will start with waiting until the snow is gone for good before instaling anything)
The rear should be more simple as the ridehight is easy to tell right away, and set the dampers using my backside as the "gauge" ;D
After all Im not looking for race track handeling.
But, if oppotunety arises, It could be cool to bring it to the track and check out how it performs when pressed hard..
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This tactic has also served me well with good old mom.... and various female "acquaintances".. though in the latter case the "forgiveness" part, can turn out very expensive!!! ;)
:D
This reminds me of a blog where someone wrote about an accident he had with his Elise, he thought the car was less forgiving for his taking it for granted than his wife was!
Anyway.. back to topic.
I'll start out with the front dampers set to "stun" or in normal terms the softest possible...with the torsionbars still in place I figure I really dont need them any harder. (actually I will start with waiting until the snow is gone for good before instaling anything)
The rear should be more simple as the ridehight is easy to tell right away, and set the dampers using my backside as the "gauge" ;D
After all Im not looking for race track handeling.
There's an instruction to check the ride heigth in the workshop manual, I don't remember if you have that or not, if you don't, then I can copy the relevant pages. As I mentioned, the ride height directly controls the camber of the rear wheels (and is the only way to change that) so it's a good idea to get it roughly right.
But, if oppotunety arises, It could be cool to bring it to the track and check out how it performs when pressed hard..
I hope the Danish club (formand, vil du måske tage teten?) will arrange something, possibly in coorporation with one of the other clubs. It really teaches you a thing or two about your car, especially when you - as I did - cross the border between control and loosing it as I did on a wet track back in August. I'd love to repeat that experience on new tyres and a dry track, and hopefully with an experienced Murena driver in the passenger seat :)
This year's meeting is set out for Fyn which has lots of narrow roads to run, but taking your car to the limit on the road is a silly idea IMO.
Trying the setup systematically on a track will teach you something about the effects of the various adjustments you can do. The track times (and improvements) will tell you something about what you have to play with. You have to plan the session though, trying out different settings.
- Anders
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looks good to me 8)
hope they work out well !
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The Renault Alpine Club is normally inviting the Danish Matra Club to their annual meeting at a race track somewhere in Jylland.
Hans
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That is correct. way back(5-6 years ago) Matra Club Denmark were invited to The Renault Alpine Clubs annaul meeting at Tirstrup Lufthavn. The club had connections that allowed them to race at an old track at Tirstrup Lufthavn. I Was there once, in the Bagheera. There was about 10 Alpines, mostly 310 and V6. But also a couple of Gordinis. They had two kinds of race. One on a round(well not completely round) where they race singlehandly against the clock. And then there is the 1/4 mile-race, two cars against each other.
I could contact them and find out if they still have this arrangement, if anyone is interrested.
Lars Tjørnelund
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I dont think I have the heart to race my murena ;)
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I could contact them and find out if they still have this arrangement, if anyone is interrested.
I think I have both the guts and the heart to take my Murena on the track and race it - and I can also take the embarrasment of finishing way down in the line, so yes, Lars, please do.
Jeg synes det er en rigtig god ide.
Der er også andre muligheder, Hondaklubben er også ganske aktiv og samarbejder i forvejen med Alfa-klubben. De kører bl.a. på Sturup som bør give selv en Bagheera muligheder for at "vise sig".
- Anders :)
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I dont think I have the heart to race my murena ;)
Just found this tagline on a racing engineering (and racer) forum:
"Contrary to popular opinion, I do have mechanical sympathy, I always feel sorry for the cars I drive." :D
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mechanical sympathy
He he.. I'll remember that one..
My reluctance for racing my car is closely likned to the fact that I will be paying the bills myself!! (and... I strongly believe that if you are not the one paying the bills, you shouldnt be raceing the car!!.. without permission of cause)
I remember reading that "one race mile equals 1000 road miles"
.....I simply cant spare either the time or money to make good on the extra wear and tear.... and i dont have a fancy Espace in the driveway to take me to work should the murena break down ;)
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Hi again,
I ended up buying a set of spax dampers... I'm aware that some people don't think much of them, but at the price of 180£ incl. postage I couldn't resist checking them out! ???
My question is now if anyone has any experience to share?
Is it possible to use the orig. rear springs or will I need a new set (like the Eibach from Simon Auto)?
Does anyone have a copy of the TUV approval (I have bought the G693 & G695 which I'm pretty sure is the same as Simon Auto has listed as item no. 24031/A)
Oh and by the way... I will surely post some pictures of my renovation project, but I would like to wait until I get the engine fired up and starts the real assembly work!
I expect to have the car ready sometime around May, but it still requires a lot of effort... :-\
