MatraSport Forum

The photo should speak for itself  :o It's a photo up the inside of the right hand rear wheel arch with the spring seat visible. The strut is removed, of course.
I don't expect any welding to be needed, but it needs sand blasting and protection. Interestingly, the corrosion seems to build up on top of the steel. It could be brake dust? Left side also had some corrosion, but was better.

My 2.2 has no problem there.
It has been treated with protection several times in his lifetime.
My 1.6 with a lot of miles on the clock will have control in oktober.
Another rust-problem that need attention in murena's is here.
Several Murena's have problems there.
Some of us think there was a air-trap in the zink process.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WWAukLroeEw/UA8GoboDtlI/AAAAAAAAAlM/iaJuJMY8k5k/s800/Aankoop16006.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PVBxeSe0Jd4/UBFPEesUbRI/AAAAAAAAAtA/P0P0upMXi_o/s800/P1050088%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

I did not know that you have two Murenas. Maybe the 1.6 got angry because you always post about the red one and this is a sort of pimple... :)

Fortunately I did not find any rust at the mentioned areas during the restoration. Only found this, but now it is eliminated:

That is pretty good.

The 1.6 I saved 6 weeks ago from the scrapyard.
It needs loads of TLC.
Here the link wit lots of pics.
http://www.matramania.be/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2605

I worked a few weeks very hard to get it up and running.
Here lots of pictures from the works.
http://www.matramania.be/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2610&sid=01e67f3fc9b9f6ef141f1d8608b5387f
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TuOx5S11vNU/UFTH3ahuLjI/AAAAAAAABYg/ywqR-CuMuY8/s640/150912_1829%257E01.jpg)

Test of 500 km to the meeting in belgium.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5q5eBr0g6R0/UFa3sEygV9I/AAAAAAAABZM/g_FM1UfoNMs/s800/P1050384%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG4q5GRwfUQ&feature=youtu.be

Still loads of work to do.

Oh, I am sorry. Now I see the 1.6 cannot be angry, it is a very lucky car.

I like your last photo - the real fighters... :)

The polishing of the spotlight covers looks very good. I did the same job at the weekend and I also managed to save the taillight lenses. Those have a lot of small cracks, but now they are very shiny and the color is more vivid. What kind of seal do you use for the spotlight covers?

I saw a lot of drilled holes on the cover of the blower, it is not original, is it?

Did you manage to save the wing mirror on your 2.2?

The seal I used is wire for 220v lamps.
The drilled holes are not original but give some extra air (not very noticeable)
I Think I make something there to open it in summer and close in wintertime.
Not sure yet.

My left mirror I managed to repair.
I used a lot of polyester to glue the screw-mountings.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yR871tqVcko/UEJuztnE6DI/AAAAAAAABP4/AlYMXB0NvcU/s800/P1050301%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

Also I found a replacement window.
'(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uJNvESB_qmg/UEJulyd5IzI/AAAAAAAABPw/-LCdNnIS1ZM/s800/P1050306%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

Greetings Herman

The interior of your new car seems to be in quite good condition mainly the original brown steering wheel.

You have done a loads of work within some weeks. It is very impressive. And of course you saved a Murena. :)

Congrats on your new 1.6'er, Hermann. Great to see another Murena saved :)

Here's a close up picture. What worries me is that my car was also protected up there, but the corrosion seems to have built up under the rubber coating used inside the wheel arches. I used a screwdriver to poke through the material.

This will need attention.
The problem with undercoating is that when it peels of a little,  water will get behind it.
It is not very much you control that area so rust can do its work.
You need a good welder to restore this part of the car.
Get the rust out and put some new metal plate in, but it is a difficult spot to work on.
We did have the same problems with a old Nissan Sunny (1988) and managed to get it done with some acrobatic welding.

Good you posted this.
I will take some extra time to control and protect this part of the car next month.

Hi Anders.

Have you tried a wire brush to see if the sink layer is still intact? Perhaps 'painting' it with Phosphoric acid will be better than sandblasting, which could remove remaining sink. The acid will convert the rust and after rinsing with water you will have a clean, rust-free surface, ready for some Hammerite. Obviously the Phosphoric acid should not remain on the surface for very long. You should be able to tell from the color of the surface as it works.

That the rust seems to be on top tells me that the sink layer has been porous, thus allowing water to reach the steel and rust to 'seep' out. The Hammerite (for galvanized surfaces of course) should reseal it.

I do not think my Murena has the coating in the wheel wells, but I will be sure to check for the problem.

I have been planning to make some plastic inner fenders to protect the metal from being hit by road debris. With your experience I will accelerate that project.   :o

Good point with the phosphoric acid/rust converter, Jon!

The surface you're seeing has been wire brushed already. It's very difficult to reach the surface behind the spring seat, so some sand blasting may still be needed. Unless you have some great idea for a tool? A miniature Dremel wire brush, perhaps (if such a thing exists)?

The corrosion looks worse from the last photo than it probably is. I have found several flakes of corrosion on the surfaces. They can be scraped off with a screw driver and wire brush (employing "some amount" of force) leaving the zinc treated metal more or less intact underneath. This is why I think much of the corrosion is made of a mixture of brake dust and plain old dirt.

Everything I've seen so far is only corroded on the surface - or slightly pitted. It's going to be "a last minute rescue", but I don't expect welding to be needed. If reinforcement should be needed anyway, I'd prefer to have it done from the engine room side as I need to have to engine taken out anyway to fix a water leak.

/Anders

I almost forgot to mention the window rails inside the doors whiches were rusty. It is not easy to clean them perfectly so after sanding and degreasing I applied a special primer which converts the remained rust. It is much thinner than Hammerite so it can penetrate into small gaps much better I think.

Unfortunately you may need more than a special primer or paint. I hope the rust is not so serious on your car.

Cheap fosfor acid. € 8.- 0.5 ltr
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ocVe4nbgyUo/T2jWN60uNiI/AAAAAAAABAM/96OQpTADnug/s800/HG.jpg)

Trunk with little rust.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-W5Pzgu4Nqfo/T2jWT2Pr5NI/AAAAAAAABCY/_l3xR85NqFA/s800/Roest07.jpg)

Sanding
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zMdHas-xw5Q/T2jWVaClKwI/AAAAAAAABCw/xvHpjG46YWY/s800/Schuren01.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gqWDPpz7nIo/T2jWV2foeTI/AAAAAAAABDA/CT3698CVDzE/s800/Schuren03.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Fj_FdvfkO5c/T2jWWNndGdI/AAAAAAAABDM/3kXOEEWpfvY/s800/Schuren04.jpg)

Make it wet and put the fosfor on.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-A89lW9wTkjQ/T2jWWapVKQI/AAAAAAAABDI/ICbqxf_2SAE/s800/Schuren05.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BnmCUW5n4c8/T2jWW9mSwOI/AAAAAAAABDY/qnVjoyM7PAg/s800/Schuren06.jpg)

Leave it for 24 hour and wash it several time with a sponge and water.
Then you have etched zink where still was zink.
The blackspots is rust that is converted to FE3 O4 (magnetiet)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fu55KxKpHRU/T2jWQ78LIdI/AAAAAAAABBQ/mzoUG09CTJk/s800/Primer3.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3By7WDYssUo/T2jWQtaslxI/AAAAAAAABBI/fnkhl6WZync/s800/Primer2.jpg)

Take some etsch or Epoxy primer and put it on.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ln-wR3BaDao/T2jWQPqNzTI/AAAAAAAABA4/YTUnL5ZMGNY/s800/Primer1.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GQHuWpWnB0o/T2jWRnnhQrI/AAAAAAAABBg/qeo1KqrM8bg/s800/Primer5.jpg)

To finish it of,  paint it with whatever quality paint.

Done in 2008 and still perfect.

Greetz Herman

It looks like the rust in boot area was triggered by past accident damaging the galvanizing.

Regards
John

Yes but that was before 1990 and badly repaired.
This was a good area to test the protection with the fosfor acid.

That does not sound good with the water leak  :(
Are you going to send the engine to Roy, or is that your spare engine going that way?

I'll be doing that one myself. It's the sealing between the engine block and the cam cover that will need to be redone. A good cleaning of the engine will be done at the same time.

http://gallery.dinsen.net/v/biler/Matra/technical/water/DSC_4035_02S.JPG.html

My plan is to send the spare to Roy for a complete rebuild.

/Anders

Ready for sand blasting...

Have you checked the metal plate which is under the fender? It looked like this in my car. The chassis was not corroded there, but the plate was totally and the rivets too. I changed them to stainless steel plates.
Unfortunately they cannot be replaced without removing the fenders and you can only see the bottom of them.

It's looking bad. Worse than yours, actually :(
However, I'm not going to do it this time. The car will get a complete paintjob, and then I'll do those two plates (why did they not use galvanised steel there! ??? )

By the way: How did you get the fenders off? Heat gun?

/Anders

Here is a description how I did it:

http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,2311.0.html

Do not laugh at the funny pictures... :)

It is easier to remove if the glue is warm. I did not use heat gun, because it was a sunny day. About 30C and the car was standing outside so it was quite warm. After removal the inner side of the fenders were reinforced by some epoxy resin. I also had to change the foil on the sides of the boot underneath the fenders.

If you have any question just ask me and I try to answer.

Inspected my 1.6 at that point.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yW1m3yYKYMw/UHBvnChq9bI/AAAAAAAABvY/4qIDqjRCAto/s800/P1050466%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

Some corrosion found.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TlAj1ehs6zk/UHBvk0TsdZI/AAAAAAAABvQ/9_sH7SJHlkA/s800/P1050467%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yc-H31xbeZA/UHBvirQv6tI/AAAAAAAABvI/4Y5SUhlAaEs/s800/P1050468%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

Gonna brush most of.
Then put on rust converter and some layers of paint.
It isn't to bad but not as good as my 2.2 that is like new there.

Greetings Herman

After 30 years it is not so much rust.
Have you removed the rust on the A-pillar? It looks much worse and the trailing arms also look rusty outside...
I hope you can prolonge the life of the car.

What is your plan with this car? You will sell it after repairing or keep it? 

I have a friend that is specialist in painting and welding the more difficult things.
I asked him to repair this without removing the front screen.

Before
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WWAukLroeEw/UA8GoboDtlI/AAAAAAAAAlM/iaJuJMY8k5k/s800/Aankoop16006.jpg)

Sanding down we saw there has been worked before on that spot.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--ahcZiICg6E/UGNKUJFKmlI/AAAAAAAABmw/MkPvBM9ceps/s640/SA000142.JPG)

He removed al the bad rust and the foam.
It is clear that the galvanisation had a airtrap at that point.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0T4_2tAypNw/UGNKVjp4JKI/AAAAAAAABm4/aquVptYHCPI/s640/SA000143.JPG)

He welded a plate in and sprayed it with some Motip spraycan I had provided.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6Zkkt4ZkhME/UGnH31-CyfI/AAAAAAAABoE/hfVoIfvxZ98/s800/P1050425%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RhF1ez5ITcQ/UGnH6MtTC1I/AAAAAAAABoM/JVVkUO5jzKg/s800/P1050429%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-k9w9MYfGN6k/UGnH_qJHb9I/AAAAAAAABok/28OuL_mL2GU/s800/P1050434%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

The A-stile wil have some rustprevention inside this week.

I am busy preparing the car to be my daily driver.
The engine is good.
The rest sucks, but I am busy fixing everything the car needs me to fix.
Already planted €1200.- parts in the car wich is far more then I payed for it.

Greeets Herman

Nice job.

I think you will not be bored during the winter.  ;)
But it is worth working a lot because another Murena will be saved. If I had more space for cars and more money...

Almost there  :)

Problem solved. Nice job. :)

Same here.
Solved for the next decade
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VZfpnmMKy18/UHWxOzK_aTI/AAAAAAAAB0k/XCfQvFknlOQ/s800/P1050489%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

Old, but not less relevant topic.

I've done some research on cold-galvanisation and has found some interesting resources.

My research lead me to Zinga who are makers of a professional grade 96% zinc cold-galvanisation product: https://www.zinga.eu/zingaspray/
The product is also available for professional spray painting and is intended to protect unprotected iron and repair damaged galvanized iron. According to their website it is used in various different environments, including off shore and wind mill industries.

Now, in the subject of this thread, the question is how we can protect already rusty surfaces. Zinga's faq addresses this question, but the marketing language is unclear about the outcome of spraying rusty surfaces:

"The performance of ZINGA is, like any coating or paint, highly dependent on the degree of surface preparation before application. Therefore, ZINGA can be applied on a slightly rusted surface, but due to the barrier of rust between ZINGA and steel, the galvanic protection is affected and therefore the performance of ZINGA is reduced. Since ZINGA can offer a sustainable, longlasting protection of steel surfaces, it is profitable to invest in a thorough surface preparation which prevents premature failure of the coating."

However, their section on surface preparation is a bit more helpful https://www.zinga.eu/application/surface-preparation/ as it instructs the surface to be rough by blasting to SA 2.5. This designation is according to an ISO stanard and is explained on the web site, but I've included a picture from the site below and a PDF showing even more details too (link to the attachment: http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2502.0;attach=6662 )

Now, if sand blasting is not possible, Zinga SA 2 level clearnliness can be obtained by wire brush, and will also work, though not give quite the same level of protection:

"substrate should be grit blasted or slurry blasted to SA 2.5 (cleanliness) – or treated with a steel brush for small, non-critical applications. If the surface already has adequate roughness (due to weathering or previous blasting), the surface can also be cleaned to SA 2.5 by using UHP washing."

Now, in the past, I've applied a product similar to Zinga to areas where I only obtained SA 2 cleanliness, and I find that the zinc binds very well to the metal, even to the level that when I brush clean it using a rotating brush, the zinc paint still sticks to the metal in a way paint cannot do.

I'm going to use zinga on all areas of my chassis that either has salty surfaces and therefore needs fresh protection, or are rusty. In both cases, I'll clean down to SA 2, spray the area, and leave it there, inspecting it regularly. The world is not perfect, but in my dreasm, I'm going to strip my chassis completely down, grit blast everything that's not perfect to SA 2.5, and paint it all over in Zinga, repeating that process every 20 years :)

Thanks!