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Author Topic: Corrosion!  (Read 8354 times)
Anders Dinsen
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« on: September 17, 2012, 04:19:24 pm »

The photo should speak for itself  Shocked It's a photo up the inside of the right hand rear wheel arch with the spring seat visible. The strut is removed, of course.
I don't expect any welding to be needed, but it needs sand blasting and protection. Interestingly, the corrosion seems to build up on top of the steel. It could be brake dust? Left side also had some corrosion, but was better.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 04:27:25 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Oetker
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 05:07:44 pm »

My 2.2 has no problem there.
It has been treated with protection several times in his lifetime.
My 1.6 with a lot of miles on the clock will have control in oktober.
Another rust-problem that need attention in murena's is here.
Several Murena's have problems there.
Some of us think there was a air-trap in the zink process.


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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
klumzer
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 06:22:38 pm »


My 1.6 with a lot of miles on the clock will have control in oktober.


I did not know that you have two Murenas. Maybe the 1.6 got angry because you always post about the red one and this is a sort of pimple... Smiley

Fortunately I did not find any rust at the mentioned areas during the restoration. Only found this, but now it is eliminated:
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 07:25:41 pm »

That is pretty good.

The 1.6 I saved 6 weeks ago from the scrapyard.
It needs loads of TLC.
Here the link wit lots of pics.
http://www.matramania.be/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2605

I worked a few weeks very hard to get it up and running.
Here lots of pictures from the works.
http://www.matramania.be/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2610&sid=01e67f3fc9b9f6ef141f1d8608b5387f


Test of 500 km to the meeting in belgium.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG4q5GRwfUQ&feature=youtu.be

Still loads of work to do.



« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 07:41:04 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
klumzer
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 08:16:42 pm »

Oh, I am sorry. Now I see the 1.6 cannot be angry, it is a very lucky car.

I like your last photo - the real fighters... Smiley

The polishing of the spotlight covers looks very good. I did the same job at the weekend and I also managed to save the taillight lenses. Those have a lot of small cracks, but now they are very shiny and the color is more vivid. What kind of seal do you use for the spotlight covers?

I saw a lot of drilled holes on the cover of the blower, it is not original, is it?

Did you manage to save the wing mirror on your 2.2?
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 08:28:22 pm »

The polishing of the spotlight covers looks very good. I did the same job at the weekend and I also managed to save the taillight lenses. Those have a lot of small cracks, but now they are very shiny and the color is more vivid. What kind of seal do you use for the spotlight covers?

I saw a lot of drilled holes on the cover of the blower, it is not original, is it?

Did you manage to save the wing mirror on your 2.2?

The seal I used is wire for 220v lamps.
The drilled holes are not original but give some extra air (not very noticeable)
I Think I make something there to open it in summer and close in wintertime.
Not sure yet.

My left mirror I managed to repair.
I used a lot of polyester to glue the screw-mountings.


Also I found a replacement window.
'

Greetings Herman
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
klumzer
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 08:40:39 pm »

The interior of your new car seems to be in quite good condition mainly the original brown steering wheel.

You have done a loads of work within some weeks. It is very impressive. And of course you saved a Murena. Smiley
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 06:48:06 am »

Congrats on your new 1.6'er, Hermann. Great to see another Murena saved Smiley

Here's a close up picture. What worries me is that my car was also protected up there, but the corrosion seems to have built up under the rubber coating used inside the wheel arches. I used a screwdriver to poke through the material.
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Oetker
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 07:29:45 am »

This will need attention.
The problem with undercoating is that when it peels of a little,  water will get behind it.
It is not very much you control that area so rust can do its work.
You need a good welder to restore this part of the car.
Get the rust out and put some new metal plate in, but it is a difficult spot to work on.
We did have the same problems with a old Nissan Sunny (1988) and managed to get it done with some acrobatic welding.

Good you posted this.
I will take some extra time to control and protect this part of the car next month.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 07:32:59 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 09:12:35 am »

The photo should speak for itself  Shocked It's a photo up the inside of the right hand rear wheel arch with the spring seat visible. The strut is removed, of course.
I don't expect any welding to be needed, but it needs sand blasting and protection. Interestingly, the corrosion seems to build up on top of the steel. It could be brake dust? Left side also had some corrosion, but was better.


Hi Anders.

Have you tried a wire brush to see if the sink layer is still intact? Perhaps 'painting' it with Phosphoric acid will be better than sandblasting, which could remove remaining sink. The acid will convert the rust and after rinsing with water you will have a clean, rust-free surface, ready for some Hammerite. Obviously the Phosphoric acid should not remain on the surface for very long. You should be able to tell from the color of the surface as it works.

That the rust seems to be on top tells me that the sink layer has been porous, thus allowing water to reach the steel and rust to 'seep' out. The Hammerite (for galvanized surfaces of course) should reseal it.

I do not think my Murena has the coating in the wheel wells, but I will be sure to check for the problem.

I have been planning to make some plastic inner fenders to protect the metal from being hit by road debris. With your experience I will accelerate that project.   Shocked
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 10:41:31 am »

Good point with the phosphoric acid/rust converter, Jon!

The surface you're seeing has been wire brushed already. It's very difficult to reach the surface behind the spring seat, so some sand blasting may still be needed. Unless you have some great idea for a tool? A miniature Dremel wire brush, perhaps (if such a thing exists)?

The corrosion looks worse from the last photo than it probably is. I have found several flakes of corrosion on the surfaces. They can be scraped off with a screw driver and wire brush (employing "some amount" of force) leaving the zinc treated metal more or less intact underneath. This is why I think much of the corrosion is made of a mixture of brake dust and plain old dirt.

Everything I've seen so far is only corroded on the surface - or slightly pitted. It's going to be "a last minute rescue", but I don't expect welding to be needed. If reinforcement should be needed anyway, I'd prefer to have it done from the engine room side as I need to have to engine taken out anyway to fix a water leak.

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
klumzer
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« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 07:17:29 pm »

I almost forgot to mention the window rails inside the doors whiches were rusty. It is not easy to clean them perfectly so after sanding and degreasing I applied a special primer which converts the remained rust. It is much thinner than Hammerite so it can penetrate into small gaps much better I think.

Unfortunately you may need more than a special primer or paint. I hope the rust is not so serious on your car.
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Oetker
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« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 07:34:58 pm »

Cheap fosfor acid. € 8.- 0.5 ltr


Trunk with little rust.


Sanding




Make it wet and put the fosfor on.



Leave it for 24 hour and wash it several time with a sponge and water.
Then you have etched zink where still was zink.
The blackspots is rust that is converted to FE3 O4 (magnetiet)



Take some etsch or Epoxy primer and put it on.



To finish it of,  paint it with whatever quality paint.

Done in 2008 and still perfect.

Greetz Herman




« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 07:38:04 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
JL
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« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 10:22:58 pm »

It looks like the rust in boot area was triggered by past accident damaging the galvanizing.

Regards
John
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« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 10:50:17 pm »

Yes but that was before 1990 and badly repaired.
This was a good area to test the protection with the fosfor acid.
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
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