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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2008, 12:58:54 am » |
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Hi Stian and welcome to the forum. The PRV V6 would have been a nice match for the Murena, but it's a big, wide engine (having the unconventional 90 degrees cylinder angle instead of 60 as normally used on V6's), so it would not have been an easy fit in the engine room. For the amateur, trying to avoid having to make too many changes, I don't think the PRV-V6 would be an obvious choise. The V6 'standard' upgrade on the Murena is based on Alfa V6's.
I don't know if Matra had plans to fit it. Where did you hear/read that? If they did, they might just as well have considered fitting the engine longitudally instead of transversally., as they would probably have to make major changes to the engine room anyway.
I know, however, that they built a Murena chassis with the legendary F1 and Le Mans sports car V12 race engine fitted longitudally. It was never given a body, however, and it doesn't exist any more.
- Anders
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
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delorean
Newbie
Posts: 8
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2008, 01:48:54 am » |
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Hi "neighbour" Anders, I'm aware of the Alfa upgrade, however a PRV-V6 (if it can be fitted) is a more economical choice, since these engines can be sourced from used Volvo 760s. Also, it would make the Murena the car the designers intended it to. The PRV-V6 (Peugeot-Renault-Volvo) was considered originally, but according to legend, Renault feared competition to its Alpine (and Fuego). Best wishes Stian B. Hi Stian and welcome to the forum. The PRV V6 would have been a nice match for the Murena, but it's a big, wide engine (having the unconventional 90 degrees cylinder angle instead of 60 as normally used on V6's), so it would not have been an easy fit in the engine room. For the amateur, trying to avoid having to make too many changes, I don't think the PRV-V6 would be an obvious choise. The V6 'standard' upgrade on the Murena is based on Alfa V6's.
I don't know if Matra had plans to fit it. Where did you hear/read that? If they did, they might just as well have considered fitting the engine longitudally instead of transversally., as they would probably have to make major changes to the engine room anyway.
I know, however, that they built a Murena chassis with the legendary F1 and Le Mans sports car V12 race engine fitted longitudally. It was never given a body, however, and it doesn't exist any more.
- Anders
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008, 11:49:40 am » |
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I've heard a lot of bad things about the PRV-V6 .
Low power, poor quality that sort of things.
Peugeot people tend to think they are bad, but I don't agree. It's an excellent engine, reliable and tough, and highly tuneable. But any engine (even a bigblock chevy, for example) becomes unreliable if you tune it heavily. I dont know the exact measurements, but most engines will be a tight fit in any case.
I agree. The engine room is small for a V6. You can gain some space by moving the fuel tank to the front of the car (pick a racing fuel cell so it won't leak in a crash, the original location is much safer), but since the location of the rear wheels/gearbox/differential and thereby the crank shaft is more or less fixed, I'm sure you will run out of space somehow against the trunk. My advice: If you want a v6, go for the Alfa conversion since this has already been done, and CARJOY in Holland can provide you with the subframe for the engine.
I agree, but talk to Waldo about driveshafts - CARJOY's solution is not reliable. But I don't see why you would want to fit another engine in the Murena? Especially not when you have the Delorean with the PRV V6. If you want another PRV V6, buy an Alpine. That's another great car. Murena is a great car too, 1.6's are tractible and perform excellently in mountain and country roads, 2.2's can be tuned easily to 140 hp and give joy even on the straight line. It won't outperform a Ferrari or a Lotus Elise, but it will make you smile! That's my opinion, Stian. PS: Do you have photos of your Delorean?  |
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
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krede
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008, 02:08:28 pm » |
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Apart from its lousy handling, wasn't the PVR engine one peoples main complaints about the Dlorean ??  moving the fuel tank to the front of the car Remember.... If you don't you'll have an exhaust manifold right next to the plastic gas tank!! pick a racing fuel cell so it won't leak in a crash, the original location is much safer In a crash maybe.. but otherwise no. Consider that gasoline gives off highly flammable fumes even at normal temperatures..... now imagine the crammed and poorly ventilaterd engine bay heated by two manifolds. If it was legal (which it my guess is that it most certainly is NOT) I would have a fuel cell made to fit in the front... it would still be behind the front axle, and I think it might actually IMPROVE handling... What ever you do, I think you should have a chat with either Waldo or Bart... between them they posses most of the "hands on" knowledge about murena engine swaps on this forum.  |
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delorean
Newbie
Posts: 8
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2008, 09:28:14 pm » |
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PRV-V6
The engines before 1980 were bad. I've heard stories of "eating camshafts"...
However, this particular problem was corrected, and DeLorean - which came out in 1981 - got the PRV-V6 where the problem had been corrected.
It's a solid and great engine, but suffers from bad reputation (which isn't true)
The main concerns among DeLorean buyers in 1981 was that the car was "under-powered". This was mainly due to the fact that many saw DeLorean as a racing car (which it clearly isn't) and not a sports car/GT car (which it is). All DeLoreans were exported from Dunmurry, Belfast, Northern Ireland to USA. Because of US emissions, the engine was "strangled" with catalytic converters, so the horsepower was only 130...and americans love V8s and several hundred horsepower in their cars. That is why DeLorean got a bad reputation.
Nowadays, many remove the cats, get a free-flow exhaust and change camshafts and tune it up. Many swap engines also with Renault Alpine specs.
I got interested in the Murena, because they have a lot in common. The DeLorean has a steel backbone chassis (like Lotus Elan/Esprit) which is, unfortunately, not galvanized, but epoxy-coated. But it helds up very well. The chassis itself is made of glassfibre, with stainless steel panels attached to the body. It's a rear engined car (weight 35/65!!!) - the engine is all in the rear. Why not mid-engine? Because John Z. DeLorean wanted room for a set of golf clubs...
It has gullwing doors, which are excellent in tight parking spots. They are hinged at the middle of the roof, so the doors swing right up, not out, as you may think. Interior is leather/vinyl, huge centre console separates driver and passenger, almost like an airplane cockpit. Rolls-Royce feeling, yet drives like a go-cart, but if feels you sits in a sofa, very relaxed and low on the ground. The fuel tank rests between the Y-shaped frame in the front, here is also the radiator. I saw a Murena photo somewhere, which showed the car from the underside. It is very similar to DeLorean.
I'm very satisfied with the PRV-V6, and I think the Murena is a little underpowered, both sound-wise and horsepower. I don't have a Murena, but I'd like one later on. I have seen one in real life, and it is an attactive car. However, I don't think I would keep it original. I think the interior also can be improved with both leather and updated instrumentation etc.
I have photos of my DeLorean somewhere...in the meantime search Google.
Best wishes
Stian B.
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delorean
Newbie
Posts: 8
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2008, 01:45:55 pm » |
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Very interesting link. Seems it can be done after all. Now, what/who is "politechnic"? An institute of some sort? Best wishes Stian B. |
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