Murena 1.6 engine mods

[Anders Dinsen]

I've been thinking a bit more, and I found a picture of your car in my files... still inspired by the book, but also from todays (wet) day on www.sportscarevent.dk

I don't think you should remove the license plate from the cooling duct, I'm sure there's enough air there, and you can always mount a second ventilator behind the radiator. You will probably also need a bigger (fatter?) radiator?

Your air intake (front brake cooling?) in the front can be replaced with something oval and a smooth tube directly to the air intake to the engine - that will give it plenty of fresh air. The other can be used to feed air to your oil cooler and around the engine.

The two rectangular intakes can be used for brake cooling.

- Anders (inspired and thoughts running!)

 

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[Waldo]

Hello, I'm back with both good and bad news!

The Murena passed the car inspection in Denmark yesterday 
and I will be paying the reg. tax tomorrow... 

Further more a good look at the HDI engine and gearbox shows that the installation should be possible without to much magic.

I have talked to the danish tax office, and installing a HDI engine won't upset them at all.
But the danish car inspection seems keen on causing problems. I spoke to an engineer on the phone, and he wasn't really happy with the idea.
First of all he made sure that I was familiar with the danish 20% power increase limit. Then he started telling of exhaust limits, but these don't apply for a car older than 1987.
The final thing that might be able to spoil the fun, is that the car inspection can/will require a "drive by" noise approval, which is rather expensive and from my point of view completely unecessary to say the least! (there is no way the noise level will be significant higher than with the rather loud petrol engine)

All in all I think I will go to the local car inspection and ask them... in the end what I need is their signature on the test report!

Cheers,
Valdemar

[Anders Dinsen]

I have never heard about the noise approval being necessary - I would expect that if the person doing the inspection beleives that the car is very noisy, then he may require you to do it - but if it obviously is not, then they will not require it. I'm sure it's not necessary to have a certificate proving that the noise level is within the bounds.

It looks like you've found a picky engineer

[Waldo]

Hello,

My project have been on hold for a very looong period of time, but it's now back in action!

Have made engine mounts for the HDI engine (the original mounting points will still be used)
Fitted a custom made exhaust manifold (space was limited)
Prepared a custom exhuast system based on the HDI (incl. cat and rear box)
Looked into the gear linkage (gear stick postions will be swaped 1st will become 2nd, 2nd will become 1st)
Decided to reduce the size of the petrol/diesel tank
Test fitted the engine and checked the clearance for the suspension, wheels aso.

Things that I will be doing soon:
Modifying the fuel tank (welding).
Joining the outer Murena driveshafts with the HDI inner shafts (welding).
Finishing the Gear linkage.
Connecting the hydraulic clutch.
Installing the ECU and engine wiring for the HDI engine.

Will move forward with the project over the next weeks, i hope to have the engine running within 14 days!

But it will be somewhat longer before the car is on the road... I will do a complete overhaul incl. a paintjob and new windscreen and seats!

By the way, I could use some help from you guys 

Anyone:
got a spare fuel tank that they don't intend to use?
that know someone that can weld plastics?
know where to get a set of "spring bases" (Federteller) for spax dampers?


Take care,
Valdemar

[krede]

Hi Valdemar.
Quite an interesting project you have started!..
I would love to pop by and have a look at your work on time..

Perhaps Ruud from Carjoy can help you out with the fueltank... I belive he modifies the fueltanks he use for his v6 alfa conversions.

The car inspector can demand a noice test (approx 4-5000 dkr), If he deem it nessesary.. and IF the car registered first time AFTER 1982 (I dont have the exact cut date with me.. but I can find out when I get home).
But.. being a diesel, I cant imagine hot it could possibly make more noice then a petrol.. the turbo alone scould shut it up quite a bit.

The power output might become a problem since you cannot legaly increase the power more then 20% in the 1.6 without having it tested by Tüv ect.
The reason for this is, that the 1.6 is NOT technically identical to the 2.2 S (apart from the engine).
But if its a 90 hp HDI Engine you are using you should have no problems what so ever.

 

[Waldo]

Hi Krede,

I'm using a 90HK HDI engine, for the exact same reason... If I feel the need, I guess it can slightly tuned after the inspection

This car is a 1982... maybe that's going to be a problem.

If anyone in Denmark knows some nice people at a car inspection I would like to know... I'm not trying to get a dangerous car on the road, but I'm sure you know how picky they can be when they see something modified!

[Waldo]

Krede,

You are of course welcome to drop in for a look and a drink...
Car is located at my work near Korsør, fortunately I have a big garage availible there 

By the way, I'm aware the 2.2 differ in some ways, can you confirm it's the rear trailing arms, anti rollbar and rear brake setup?

Maybe I should get a 2.2 for parts from germany at some point... anyone that would be in on a project like that?

[krede]

Both Matra_Hans and me are fitting turbos to our cars (eventually).. so we will have alot to do with the authorities in the up comming time....

Your main problem (as I see it) Is that you are fitting a different engine all togeather... that might be more then the average Inspector is ready to aprove without some sort ofdocumentation..  ... but if, as you say, you are not cutting or welding in the frame but are sticking to making new engine mounting brackets.. you might get away with it...

can you confirm it's the rear trailing arms, anti rollbar and rear brake setup?

As far as I know you are correct.. but I bet Roy can confirm that for sure, if no one else beats him to it

[Waldo]

Also...

If there is any swedish people reading this I would like to know a little about the rules for having a modified car approved in Sweden. I remember being told "anything" is possible over there 

And according to a former danish car inspector I know they can easily aprove a car that have been through an inspection in Germany or any other EU country (apart from noise and polution).

[Anders Dinsen]

By the way, I'm aware the 2.2 differ in some ways, can you confirm it's the rear trailing arms, anti rollbar and rear brake setup?

Chassis is a bit different to accomodate the larger engine - at least initially, as the later 1.6 chassis' were more or less identical to the 2.2's, except for the heat shield in the back of the engine room and the engine mounts of course. Only reason the trailing arms are wider, is also to accomodate the engine. The problem was that the car was originally designed for an undersquare 2 litre engine, but Matra weren't allowed to use it anyway, so they had to squeeze the oversquare 2.2 in instead.

If anyone in Denmark knows some nice people at a car inspection I would like to know...

My suggestion is to go and ask them questions first about your project, that will give you information and give them a chance to get aquainted with you. Psycologically it may make a difference.

[krede]

there is any swedish people reading this I would like to know a little about the rules for having a modified car approved in Sweden. I remember being told "anything" is possible over there 

And according to a former danish car inspector I know they can easily aprove a car that have been through an inspection in Germany or any other EU country (apart from noise and polution).

The tests they do in Sweeden are more or less the same as in Germany as far as I know.
 

[RazorbackNOR]

Hi
I have just put a 1.6 engine with gearbox (Peugeot BE1 gearbox) on a scale and the weight is exactly 150 kg. However the 2.2 engines is heavier than a1.6 so most likely the HDI engine will be within the weight limits for the Murena.
As it is possible to find space to fit a petrol turbo engine in the Murena it must also be possible to find the space for a turbo diesel.
I have heard that somebody who have done several engine transplants in different cars always build a model/ muck-up of the engine room out of plywood in order to figure out how to fit the engine. He claimed that this method saved a lot of time as doing the test fitting outside the car was very easy.
If you install an intercooler the airflow for the intercooler will be a problem, a water-cooled charge cooler will solve that problem but they are very expensive.

By the way: This evening I managed to get my 505-turbo engine running for the first time. I have had great difficulties in starting the engine and have spent a lot of time checking the wiring. I can tell you there are a lot of wiring, relays and interlocking on such an engine. It has three separate “computers” i.e. ECU, ignition curve management and knock sensor computer. I did not find any error in the wiring, but just suddenly when I pressed my red starter putton the engine fired up; there must have been a bad and/or corroded wire connection somewhere.
I have the engine in an engine stand in my workshop, in order to be sure that everything is OK before installing it in my Murena 2.2.

regards Hans

Hello Hans, i'm considering using the 505GTi inlet, ECU and wireing+++ in trying to convert the Murena to injection. Have you removed all/some of the components in your engine and is it very messy? considering there are several control boxes, each with its own function etc. Or would you recommend an aftermarked setup, eg MEgasquirt/Wolf3d?

[Oskar]

you can get itr through MOT in sweden if you change the complete brakesystem, then you reg the car as modyfied and can go by the powerlimit 15kw/100kg

yes, you will need a complete original engine with cat and ecu

[Matra_Hans]

Razorback wrote:
Hello Hans, I’m considering using the 505GTi inlet, ECU and wireing+++ in trying to convert the Murena to injection. Have you removed all/some of the components in your engine and is it very messy? considering there are several control boxes, each with its own function etc. Or would you recommend an aftermarked setup, eg MEgasquirt/Wolf3d?

Hi
I have just returned back home after 13 months of working in Sudan, so mentally I am still a little knocked out, but any way here are my comments.
Please be aware that a 505 GTI is a complete different car with a different engine compared to the 505 Turbo Injection. If my memory serves me well there have only been build approx. 10.000 units of the 505 Turbo and most of them are sold in the USA. So you will not find any at your local car breaker (unless you are very lucky)
However, the wiring loom on a 505 Turbo is very messy as the car only have one wiring loom taking care of all functions in the car including such items at lights etc. So you will have to cut up the wiring loom and remove the wires that you do not need for engine management. If as an example you take a BMW it will have one separate wiring loom for the basic functions, one for engine management, and one for comfort function.
If I were to convert an existing Matra 2.2 engine to injection I would definitely go for an after market ECU and install and set up all sensors myself.
The three “boxes” for the engine management are:
1 the main engine ECU
2 Ignition advance control
3 Knock sensor.
But I will think that this can be different with the different model years, as an example the 185 HP model had an electric controlled by pass valve i.e. one more “box”

Hans

[RazorbackNOR]

GOD DAMN IT!!!   

This isn`t going to an easy job any way you look at it....

But I thought that GTi was turbo injection....? Is the 505 turbo carb-powered then...?