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Author Topic: Rad Replaced but further hel req'd  (Read 25316 times)
jag
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« on: April 02, 2012, 12:18:51 pm »

Hi all  - managed to replace my rad finally, it's a pig of a job old rad jus wud'nt come out. Until i removed the intercooler flexi hose for the turbo. Refilled the coolant and bled it from 2 points. One on the radiator and the other on the matrix pipe on the passeger side near the battery. I ran her up for a good half hour, heater blowing nice hot air. Regarding the the two hoses on the radiator the one on the right hand side vertical entry got really hot but the horizontal entry hose on the left isn't as hot as the the right hand side one. Also my fans didn't come on.  The temp gauge inside got to 3 bars ( 4 is normal) and then wnet back to 2.  The espace manual shows 3 bleed points for the G8T engine, but i can only see 2. Can anyone tell me where this other bleed point is supposed to be. Also when do the fans kick in, as I said car was running for a good half hour (stationary) but no fans. Unless the temp sensor on the fan is faulty, as it came with the second hand rad. If I replace it with the one from mt original rad can I put some PTFE tape on to secure the join or is it best to get a new copper washer. Any help most appreciated, as I want to take my car to Sunny north Wales on Sunday. So the sooner someone can advice me, the better. Regards and thanks to all Jag
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1999  Grand Espace 2.2 dTi RTX
2003  Peugeot 206 1.4 Hdi LX
BrianM
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2012, 06:07:06 pm »

I would take the car for a drive with the coolant cap off. Take some coolant with you & stop after a few miles to top up, see if it needs topping up again after a few more miles. If not then put the cap on. Check that you have heat in both footwells & then you should be ok. Check level again next morning & before going on a long run.
If yours is dci then poss you will never hear the fans run unless sat in a city traffic in the middle of summer for half an hour or more. If it isn't getting to the right temp on the dash as it did before then it is because you have a better radiator. I think my fans run at around five or six indi's on the dash.
You would be best buying a new sender or checking the old ones with a meter, i'm sure there is a document in the vault that will give the specs.
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2012, 09:16:49 pm »

Coolant cap off while driving would just result in loss of coolant as it will exit out of the bottle in this pressurised system.

Fill coolant in the exp bottle with heater matrix bleed open, when coolant starts to come out close bleed valve.
Start the engine with exp cap off - rev to 2500 rpm and keep it reving while adjusting level in expansion bottle - after approx 4 minutes close cap with level near minimum.
G8T must then be run at 2500 rpm for about 20 minutes to free the system of any air, this should start the radiator fans when system is ready. Then check level, should be near to Max level. Adjust level when cooled down.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
jag
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2012, 11:29:44 pm »

Many thanks for  that Renault biler - I will try your mentioned procedure tomorrow. I did try running the engine today for about 20/25 mins  I did rev it for about 10 mins out of the 20/25 and did notice that the Rad was very hot  and  noticed some smoke coming from around the rad due to heat coming from it. The fans didn't come on to cool it  and noticed that the temp was only 3 bars.  I was wondering whether to just replace the temp sensor from the second hand rad with my original one. Also I take it the plug for the sensor can only really go on one way , as it has 3 pins, I will check it again tomorrow, as it was getting dark  when i re-connected this plug.  Many thanks for all your help , you too Brian. I will keep you guys posted on how I get on - Regards Jag
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1999  Grand Espace 2.2 dTi RTX
2003  Peugeot 206 1.4 Hdi LX
BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2012, 06:01:28 pm »

"Coolant cap off while driving would just result in loss of coolant as it will exit out of the bottle in this pressurised system"

Sorry but that is garbage!

If the head gasket had gone maybe it would chuck all the coolant out but this only gets pressurised when hot. Yes you may loose some coolant if you have a large air lock, but rather this than overheating the system without coolant.
I only said to drive a few miles, this will not cause the system to get hot enough to pressurise the system.
I have been a mechanic for 30 yrs & this has always been my preferred method of bleeding a system.
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2012, 08:05:22 pm »

Well its not my way, Renault system is a sealed pressurised system and its never recomended to drive anything with system open. Driving with cap off will result in cooland escaping bottle as it heats up and we dont want that as it will result in too little fluid left when its cooled down and potentially creating new air pockets. Ofcourse depending on the time and temperature of the engine.

I try to follow Renault spec when bleeding as that always seems to give the best result.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
jag
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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2012, 10:47:40 pm »

Still no joy guys - Renaultbiler i tried your method and just when I thought i was home and dry Upon running the espace on approx 2500 rpm  I had got to about the 11th minute when the rad started to smoke again and didnt stop. I let the car run for about another 5/6 minutes. The temp was 4 bars which is when it's normal. But still no fans and Rad still smoking alot now, i switched off the as I thought I could hear something whistling in the background, hope it wasn't the turbo or water pump. But my temp remained normal during the smoking. I even replaced the temp sensor from my original rad in case the one on the replacement rad was faulty. I did try the car later on about 30 mins later and the whistling noise had gone.  Now I was thinking the only reason the Rad would smoke would be if it was leaking which it is not. Or because it's a second hand rad it may have a blockage within, the reason why i say that is that when it was smoking the top of the rad was absolutely roasting hot and the bottom was only luke warmish. Any thoughts or ideas any one ?  My fans were defo working on the old rad, i know that for sure !
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1999  Grand Espace 2.2 dTi RTX
2003  Peugeot 206 1.4 Hdi LX
jag
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« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2012, 10:52:33 pm »

Sorry I forgot to mention that because the bottom of the rad wasn't that hot, the temp sensor will never kick in to trigger the fans to come in, hence the rad just keeps on getting hotter due to possible blockage  ?
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1999  Grand Espace 2.2 dTi RTX
2003  Peugeot 206 1.4 Hdi LX
William123
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 03:48:42 pm »

Hi, did you reverse flush the replacement rad before fitting ? could be sediment in the bottom ?
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jag
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Posts: 62


« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 06:34:16 pm »

just a quick water flush but not thoroughly enough , funny how i was thinking the same thing that it could be stuff at the bottom from over the years as it is a second hand rad .if i disconnect the hoses to the rad instead of taking it out of the car , i could flush the rad with a hose.Thanks for your input will give it a go Regards Jag.
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1999  Grand Espace 2.2 dTi RTX
2003  Peugeot 206 1.4 Hdi LX
BrianM
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Posts: 321


« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2012, 09:14:08 pm »

with the filler cap off & a full system of coolant, & cold, remove the bottom hose. Do you get a gush of coolant from both hose & rad? May give you some indication of flow. Are you getting a return of fluid to the bottle through the small hose at the top. You should get some heat at the side of the rad as it flows. If no flow then maybe the water pump impeller has sheared. Are you replacing the rad due to a overheat having blown the old rad?
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jag
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Posts: 62


« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2012, 10:35:35 pm »

I was replacing the rad because it had been leaking for a while now, but the leak was getting worse recently. It was ok whilst I was driving the car but upon parking overnight my coolant was getting just below  the min mark  in the coolant bottle.
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1999  Grand Espace 2.2 dTi RTX
2003  Peugeot 206 1.4 Hdi LX
jag
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Posts: 62


« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2012, 01:26:23 pm »

Hi again, could anyone tell me how much difference there is supposed to be between the top  and bottom of the rad. In degrees roughly, i have been informed that the top shud be about 10 degress hotter than the bottom of the rad, once the engine has got upto temperature. With the one I installed the bottom is hardly getting luke warm, that is where the temp sensor is so my fans will never come in. The only thing i can think of is a blockage within the rad. You see i dont want to spend nearly £200 on a new rad and find I have the same problem. I have tried disconnecting the 3 hoses and tried reverse flushing the rad , I seem to get water coming out of the other holes aswell as from the bottom drain hole. The only other option was to put my original rad back in and try it out just to make sure that my fans still kick in as they did prior to taking it out. It seems a worthless try but don't really konw what else to try. Any one any ideas ?

My espace has never been off the road for this long since I've owned her from Oct 2001. The wifey is missing driving 'La Espace'.
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1999  Grand Espace 2.2 dTi RTX
2003  Peugeot 206 1.4 Hdi LX
ross
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Posts: 98


« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2012, 07:43:30 pm »

Hi Jag,
Just read your thread and it appears that no one has answered your original question. "can anyone tell me where this other bleed screw is ?".
There is a bleed screw for each heater matrix, you seem to have found the one for the passenger side, behind the Battery, and there is a matching bleed screw in about the same location on the driver side.
You can just about get your hand in over the inlet manifold and get your fingers on the knurled knob in the same manner as the passenger side.
If it hasn't been moved in a long time it can be very hard to move with your fingers, in this case try using a dumpy screwdriver, if you can wiggle it in there.
If you have a silted up radiator then all the bleeding will not help cure this problem, but if it is an air lock, I have rigged up a piece of old radiator hose, big enough to fit over the coolant filler, and long enough to give a head of water, so that as you open each bleed point the head of water should force the air out.
I usually did this operation with the front of the car up on ramps to help the air rise to the radiator and out of the radiator bleed point.
Hope this is of help.
Regards
Ross
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2005 Grande Espace 2.2DCi
1994 2.1Td Espace
2005 Kangoo 1.2
1977 Renault 16TL
1974 Renault 16TX
jag
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Posts: 62


« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2012, 09:53:50 am »

Hi Ross, thanks for your reply.  Unfortunately I am off to wales today until Thursday. So upon my return I will try what u have told me to try. I'm going in a peugeot 206 with me,missus and 3 kids so it's going to be a hell of a squeeze compared to our spacious espace. Can't wait to have our Espace back.
Regards Jag
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1999  Grand Espace 2.2 dTi RTX
2003  Peugeot 206 1.4 Hdi LX
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