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Author Topic: Getting ready for the road again  (Read 117937 times)
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #285 on: July 17, 2023, 10:45:39 pm »

Have you fitted the engine wiring loom to the engine Anders?  It is much easier to fit it and neatly before you instal the engine, and once in, you only have to connect the single plug on the right plus the earth wire on the chassis tower; plus the earth braid underneath of course.  It was made to be fitted like that.

Thanks for asking, Roy, I have, yes. Actually the loom is somewhat modified to cater for the additional circuitry needed by the electric water pump controller. I have also added an oil temperature sensor next to the oil pressure sensor, and the electrical fuel pump will have its own two pole connector wired to an electronic relay under the dash. The latter is part of a modification I made many years ago when I converted to the electrical fuel pump and wanted to ensure it would only run when the engine is actually running (safety relay).

However, I've removed the wiring and part of the work I'm looking at now is to implement the new connector to the EWP circuitry. Also, I'm cleaning and refitting the connection to the rear lights. Coming up will also be the installation of a wideband O2 sensor in the exhaust which will also need some wiring to be routed (although that will be on the LH side of the car).

Apart from some shopping, I didn't manage to get anything done today, though. While I'm still enjoying the summer holidays there were blackcurrants and red currants that needed picking, and a son in need of help installing his new dishwasher Smiley

Edit: Added a picture of the oil temperature sensor.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 06:59:44 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #286 on: July 19, 2023, 10:03:40 pm »

I have finally got the length of the alternator belt right. Note that I've upgraded the adjustment mechanism. This one gives me a little less to play with, but should make it much easier to tighten. The alternator will have to be removed before the engine is refitted.
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
matramurena
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« Reply #287 on: July 20, 2023, 09:39:37 pm »

Smart using a "strekkfisk" as tensioner! Have to remember that one since I recently had to modify a lot to get the alternator of my boat fitted on another position, this would have helped.  Cheesy

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1983 Matra Murena V6 (AR engine)
2003 Matra Avantime 2.0T Expression
2003 Matra Avantime V6 Privilege
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #288 on: July 21, 2023, 09:24:46 am »

Smart using a "strekkfisk" as tensioner! Have to remember that one since I recently had to modify a lot to get the alternator of my boat fitted on another position, this would have helped.  Cheesy

That's a nice nordic word for the device there, don't think I've heard that before Smiley

The alternator position is clearly a suboptimal inheritance from the Chrysler 2l and Tagora where the alternator is accessible from above and front of the car so you can reach down with two hands and releasing and retighting bolts and nuts while tensioning the belt. The Murena is hopeless, IMO. The strekkfisk can be adjusted with my fingers as soon as the locking nuts have been released and since it's stainless, it hopefully stays clean (I will be greasing the threads and bolts though).
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #289 on: July 21, 2023, 09:39:51 pm »

I got this kit in the mail today. It's an AEM 30-0300 kit complete with wideband sensor and gauge from DS Garage https://www.dsgarage.it/store/en/aem/120-aem-30-0300-wideband-afr-gauge-840879024437.html  

It will still be a while before I actually get to running the engine, but I wanted the kit now since I'll have an opportunity to try to weld in the bung in the exhaust next week and want to prepare the wiring for it along with other wiring to the engine.

I planned to weld the bung into the U-bend between my SS 4-in-1 manifold and the exhaust since the U bend is mild steel and the specifications said that the bung AEM supplies with the kit is also mild steel, but it seems the bung actually delivered is a stainless one as it's completely unmagnetic. This makes it more obvious to fit it into the manifold right after the point where the downpipes join.
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
roy4matra
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« Reply #290 on: July 23, 2023, 01:30:39 pm »

Smart using a "strekkfisk" as tensioner! Have to remember that one since I recently had to modify a lot to get the alternator of my boat fitted on another position, this would have helped.  Cheesy

That's a nice nordic word for the device there, don't think I've heard that before Smiley

The alternator position is clearly a suboptimal inheritance from the Chrysler 2l and Tagora where the alternator is accessible from above and front of the car so you can reach down with two hands and releasing and retighting bolts and nuts while tensioning the belt. The Murena is hopeless, IMO...

Actually you can improve it a little, but it is easier with the down-draught carburettor which is of course how the Tagora and Murena were designed.  Since you have the twin side-draught carbs. which were never fitted to a Tagora and are a tight squeeze 'made to measure' fit in a Murena, things there are always going to be difficult.

To make the adjustment locking and unlocking easier, you weld the nut to the square spacer making it a 'captive nut' that fits into the slotted adjustment bracket.  Then when you go to slacken the bolt, the nut cannot turn as the square spacer cannot turn in the bracket.  That means you only need a spanner on the other side.  Originally the nut would turn so you needed a spanner both sides and there is just not enough room for two arms to get down there!  I did this many years ago to mine, and it made it much easier to adjust my belt tension - but I also only have the down-draught carburettor! Smiley

Roy
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 01:33:43 pm by roy4matra » Logged

Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #291 on: July 23, 2023, 04:19:28 pm »

Actually you can improve it a little, but it is easier with the down-draught carburettor which is of course how the Tagora and Murena were designed.  Since you have the twin side-draught carbs. which were never fitted to a Tagora and are a tight squeeze 'made to measure' fit in a Murena, things there are always going to be difficult.

To make the adjustment locking and unlocking easier, you weld the nut to the square spacer making it a 'captive nut' that fits into the slotted adjustment bracket.  Then when you go to slacken the bolt, the nut cannot turn as the square spacer cannot turn in the bracket.  That means you only need a spanner on the other side.  Originally the nut would turn so you needed a spanner both sides and there is just not enough room for two arms to get down there!  I did this many years ago to mine, and it made it much easier to adjust my belt tension - but I also only have the down-draught carburettor! Smiley

That's a very nice simple solution indeed! I remember you've mentioned this to me some years ago, but since I never had access to a workshop with welding tools, I never got around to implementing it. And you're right - there's absolutely no space with the sidedraughts - fortunately removing them is not too difficult as they're designed for easy servicing in motorsports.

I'm working on refitting the engine today. So far I have reached the point where I have the car standing on the engine fitted in the lower two engine mounts. Now I just need to tip it 15 degrees over to the rear so the upper mount will reach. This I'll do by lifting the engine at the lifting eye on the inlet side of the cylinder hear using a metal bar running across the enging and a hook made out of an 8 mm threaded rod.

Fitting the small water pump will be next, and then I'll start working on the sump.

Before starting the refitting, I checked if I could determine the best position of the O2 sensor in the manifold. I realized I needed the engine in the car to be able to determine this, though. I need to fit it as close as possible to the collector while avoiding intereference with the bracket that holds the rear gear linkage mechanism. The sensor must be fitted at an angle greater than 10 degrees from horisontal to ensure water doesn't collect in it but drains into the exhaust, and ideally 45 cm from the exhaust ports. The length of the runners on my manifold is however much more than 45 cm so that will not be possible.

/Anders
« Last Edit: July 23, 2023, 04:27:50 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Matraman
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« Reply #292 on: July 27, 2023, 08:52:47 pm »

Smart using a "strekkfisk" as tensioner! Have to remember that one since I recently had to modify a lot to get the alternator of my boat fitted on another position, this would have helped.  Cheesy

That's a nice nordic word for the device there, don't think I've heard that before Smiley

The alternator position is clearly a suboptimal inheritance from the Chrysler 2l and Tagora where the alternator is accessible from above and front of the car so you can reach down with two hands and releasing and retighting bolts and nuts while tensioning the belt. The Murena is hopeless, IMO. The strekkfisk can be adjusted with my fingers as soon as the locking nuts have been released and since it's stainless, it hopefully stays clean (I will be greasing the threads and bolts though).

I found that tensioning the alternator belt was better from underneath the car. I put a ratchet strap round the body of the alternator and run it forward and put it round the bolt which sticks down from the front torsion bar adjuster. Then tighten the ratchet strap until the alternator drive belt is the right tension and tighten the nut and bolt. That has lasted nearly 3 years and 5000 km so I think it's an okay way to do it!
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Andrew
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« Reply #293 on: July 28, 2023, 07:52:23 pm »

That sounds like a good way to do the alternator belt. Thank you for the tip. 👍
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #294 on: July 29, 2023, 06:34:50 am »

I worked hard on what's probably best termed "a packaging problem" with the small water pump fitted in the engine room. The problem is that it didn't work the way I thought it would: It would touch either the chassis, ignition coil, or the water pipe running on the right side of the engine to the front. All this I could have worked out when the engine was still in my workshop or just on the garage floor but for some reason, I didn't. I felt I needed to know how much space there was around the engine. Now, with the engine back in the car, I've had to work on with with my hands deep in the engine room. At least, the problem is solved now - and in the course of solving it, when I was worried it would never work out, I even created myself a "plan B", which I'll come back to later, bu in short would involve fitting a slightly modified front water pipe from a 505 Turbo, removing the valve in the front on the hose to the heater matrix, and replacing it with the small water pump run by a PWM controller managed by the heater controls on the dash...

Fortunately I didn't have to go down that route now, but can stick to my original plan A: The supplementary water pump, driving the engine water circuit from the header tank, through the small water pipe running under the inlet manifold, into the water pump housing, through the engine, thermostat housing, and back through either the heater matrix or a bypass hose replacing the heated inlet manifold (which I don't have with the sidedraughts)... This system will mimic the original system more or less 1:1. I posted a diagram of the circuit earlier in this thread.

The picture shows "the packaging" of the pump on top of the alternator and some of the plumbing with silicone hoses. You can't see the big pipe that runs from the radiator to the big inlet on the water pump housing in the picture, but the small pump fits below that. In the pictures it looks like the pump is almost touchting the ignition coil, but I managed to fix that by twisting the silicone hoses a bit.

Next is finalizing the engine room wiring, permanently fitting the alternator, water pump, water pipes. When that's done, I'll start working on the sump, and after that, the (empty) thermostat housing, carburettors, ignition etc...

Also, I still have a "project" going on with the exhaust and fitting the lambda sensor, and Jesper helped me weld the broken welds on my front seat so I can get that put back together with the new foam and cleaned/repaired covering... Later!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2023, 06:38:37 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
roy4matra
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« Reply #295 on: July 29, 2023, 11:37:18 am »


I'm working on refitting the engine today. So far I have reached the point where I have the car standing on the engine fitted in the lower two engine mounts. Now I just need to tip it 15 degrees over to the rear so the upper mount will reach. This I'll do by lifting the engine at the lifting eye on the inlet side of the cylinder hear using a metal bar running across the enging and a hook made out of an 8 mm threaded rod.

/Anders

I note from this photo of yours, Anders, that you haven't moved the fuel tank vent valve to the top of the fuel tank.  This is definitely something I seriously recommend to all Murena owners as it prevents any tank over flow, as well as making it easier to fill the tank.  It was a factory modification and all Murena S had the valve moved there.  Since the top of the tank has a large air pocket and the fuel can never go much higher than the the filler pipe, which is well below the top, any fuel expansion after filling, as the fuel goes from cold to warm (heated from the engine bay heat) it is still well below the vent valve and consequently will never overflow.  This can happen with the valve in its original postion behind the the filler cap.

It is detailed in my technical article on the fuel system for any that need to see it.

It wil be easy to do at this time before the coolant system is connected, re-filled, and finished.

Roy
« Last Edit: July 29, 2023, 11:42:40 am by roy4matra » Logged

Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #296 on: July 30, 2023, 06:13:31 am »

It is detailed in my technical article on the fuel system for any that need to see it.

Thank you, Roy! I wonder why I have not thought about this before, perhaps because this is one of the few minor annoyancies of the Murena which I quickly adjusted to just avoided filled up the tank completely. Only on one occasion have I had a problem with fuel spillage. But you're right, I should definitely correct this, and I will. Now that I think about it, I even have the original instruction for doing it on paper in my Murena manuals. Thanks again!

While I was fitting wiring under the car, I ran into a small problem with the connector in the trunk, MC4. I will renew the rubber grommets on the two places where the loom passes through the chassis and into the trunk so I need to take out the pins in the connector to pass the grommet over. I could cut it off and renew it completely, and while I could replace it with a modern water proof connector, the connector is good and fits under the carpet, so I'd actually prefer not to do that. But I can't find a way to undo these pins from the housing. If anyone has ever done this or just has an idea, please let me know.
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
roy4matra
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« Reply #297 on: July 30, 2023, 10:11:44 am »

While I was fitting wiring under the car, I ran into a small problem with the connector in the trunk, MC4. I will renew the rubber grommets on the two places where the loom passes through the chassis and into the trunk so I need to take out the pins in the connector to pass the grommet over. I could cut it off and renew it completely, and while I could replace it with a modern water proof connector, the connector is good and fits under the carpet, so I'd actually prefer not to do that. But I can't find a way to undo these pins from the housing. If anyone has ever done this or just has an idea, please let me know.

These terminals have barbs to lock them into the plug (two actually IIRC) just like flat type terminals, but because these terminals are circular rather than flat, you need a round tool to that pushes in, to push the barbs flat so the wire and terminal can be withdrawn from the plug.

You can buy these sets of terminal removal tools today off the internet, and they include numerous shapes and sizes to fit a range of terminals.
Such as this for a 53 piece set: See eBay item number:134461918142 or a 93 piece kit: item number 175659093015.  There are plenty of others to choose from too.

(sorry the URLs for these were so long they caused the page to be extremely wide)

Roy
« Last Edit: July 30, 2023, 10:32:50 am by roy4matra » Logged

Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #298 on: August 01, 2023, 09:47:25 pm »

These terminals have barbs to lock them into the plug (two actually IIRC) just like flat type terminals, but because these terminals are circular rather than flat, you need a round tool to that pushes in, to push the barbs flat so the wire and terminal can be withdrawn from the plug.

Thanks very much again, Roy. I've ordered a set an continued with other work.

I have removed the sump this evening. And while I removed the oil level sensor long ago for fear of ruining the connecting wires, someone before me must have had a problem as the front part of one was in the sump. The picture isn't good but it's just under the baffle. I've now lost it in my oil drain pan.

My sensor is clean and intact in a box waiting to be refitted Smiley

Next jobs are cleaning off the remains of the old gasket from the engine block and the sump itself. I then plan to trial fit to ensure the driveshaft and bottom bolt between clutch housing and sump fit before I refit and seal it with silicone.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 05:37:55 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142
2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah

Used to own:
2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v
1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V
1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
Matraman
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« Reply #299 on: August 02, 2023, 03:27:48 pm »

Why did you remove the sump after putting the engine back in the car? Is it because of the difficulty of accessing it by turning the whole engine upside down when it was out of the car? I certainly found the engine difficult to turn over when it was out of the car and in hindsight I would have bought / hired an engine stand with a rotating fixing on it to help with this.

It's interesting to see that with some effort the engine can stay in the car if the sump gasket needs attention or something similar.

By the way, how is your oil pump chain? Mine seemed very loose but Roy said they usually are loose, but rarely come off.
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Andrew
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