Getting ready for the road again

[Anders Dinsen]

Why did you remove the sump after putting the engine back in the car? Is it because of the difficulty of accessing it by turning the whole engine upside down when it was out of the car? I certainly found the engine difficult to turn over when it was out of the car and in hindsight I would have bought / hired an engine stand with a rotating fixing on it to help with this.

It's interesting to see that with some effort the engine can stay in the car if the sump gasket needs attention or something similar.

By the way, how is your oil pump chain? Mine seemed very loose but Roy said they usually are loose, but rarely come off.

Yes, that's exactly the reason. My workshop, where I worked on the engine, is too small to have an engine stand inside, so I decided to wait with this job until it was back in the car. I have suspended it from the lifting eye as you can see in the attached photo, but also lowered the car as much as possible and put an axle stand underneath so it doesn't drop. I'm probably just paranoid.

Yes, the chain is loose, but looks fine. I'll take a photo of it tomorrow.

I've worked on cleaning the sump and the engine block face from the old gasket. I've also removed the cover and mesh filter in the oil pump, and I'm now cleaning the mesh filter in soapy water. Probably as expected, there was quite a bit of dirt stuck under and in the mesh filter.

[Anders Dinsen]

I trial fitted the sump this evening after cleaning it to a decent state. The RH driveshaft slid well into the gearbox with the support bearing fitting its housing well. So I only need to enlarge the lower bolt holes towards the clutch housing on the sump so the bolt will fit despite the sump sitting 1.5mm higher. The sump will be fitted this weekend.

Soap wasn't enough to clean the mesh filter. I used a pin to push most of the rest of it out but I realized it was hard carbon so ended up burning away the remains a few quick burns with a small blow torch.

I have a single question today: Have I fitted the cover correctly on the pump facing towards the flywheel and exhaust sides of the engine?

Also, below is a photo showing the slack in the pump chain.

Edit: i realized there are three bolts in the clutch housing

[roy4matra]

I have removed the sump this evening. And while I removed the oil level sensor long ago for fear of ruining the connecting wires, someone before me must have had a problem as the front part of one was in the sump...

Clarity for all owners.
It is not the wires that are the main concern, although they will cause a problem if broken right where they enter and are sealed to the sensor on the outside.  The reason to remove the oil level sensor before removing the sump, is primarily because inside, it will foul the engine parts and will get bent or broken as the sump comes away from the engine, and they are irreplaceable.

And yes, you can remove the sump with the engine in situ, but you have to support it from above, remove the long driveshaft which means removing the semi-trailing arm first, and that entails disturbing the hub and hub bearing, and the brakes etc.  It will also drip oil for a surprisingly long time after it has been drained, so it will drip oil on you once the sump is off and becomes very messy, whilst you're trying to work underneath!

Now usually when the sump gasket is leaking, there are other leaks too, such as the timing case seal, and that means removing the crank pulley and that really means the engine has to come out as the bolt is extremely tight and extremely difficult to do in situ.  So the job to do all the things needed becomes simpler and easier if the engine is removed.

In Anders case, all the other work has been done whilst it was out, so wasn't necessary.

Roy

[Anders Dinsen]

Thanks for your clarifying message, Roy. I agree, of course. Another issue with working with it under the car like this is that the sump must be positioned rather precisely and since I need to lie on my back I will need something to ensure I steer it in place correctly. I don't want the silicone sealant to be spread out all over because of my shaking hands and arms!

I gave that some thinking yesterday and found a solution this morning as I was walking the dog. I have a surplus of the long 7 mm bolts so I have salvaged three of them cutting off their heads. I have covered the unthreaded ends with a bit of shrink tubing to make them just a little bit thicker to be a good match for the holes in the sump. With two on the exhaust side and one on the inlet side I should have no problem steering the sump in place. I plan to use my lowest going jack to lift it so I can concentrate on fitting all the short 7mm bolts, the three long ones, and the two 10 mm bolts.

I think I now have it thought through, so I should be ready to remove the sump again, enlarge the holes against the clutch housing, clean the engine block side once more, do the silicone, and fit it tomorrow.

I got my toolset for releasing the pins from the connector. I think I spent more than an hour releasing two pins out of the six - and I'm not sure they're in a good state any more as I compressed them from all sides, so I have more or less given up, will cut the wires, and replace the connector with a standard six way modular connector. This connector is sitting in space created by the bulge in the chassis under the right hand rear light and there's a decent amount of space there for the bigger connector, so the only problem with this solution is that while the original connector can easily pass through the holes in the chassis, the 6 way modular connector which I'm going to replace it with can not. Fortunately it will be easier to release the pins after which the loom will be able to pass.

[Anders Dinsen]

The sump made it back on the car yesterday. I tested the procedure I thought out while I was checking whether the enlarged holes towards the clutch housing were oval enough, and it worked fine, apart from the shrink tubing that came in the way and was not necessary.

I've also attached a photo of the oil level sensor, which is now also fitted in the sump.

[roy4matra]

I got my toolset for releasing the pins from the connector. I think I spent more than an hour releasing two pins out of the six - and I'm not sure they're in a good state any more as I compressed them from all sides, so I have more or less given up, will cut the wires, and replace the connector with a standard six way modular connector. This connector is sitting in space created by the bulge in the chassis under the right hand rear light and there's a decent amount of space there for the bigger connector, so the only problem with this solution is that while the original connector can easily pass through the holes in the chassis, the 6 way modular connector which I'm going to replace it with can not. Fortunately it will be easier to release the pins after which the loom will be able to pass.

Whilst I can understand that even with the correct tools these tiny terminals are often difficult to release and be withdrawn, it is most likely the barbs can be flattened in the process.  However, with a small tool such as in a pick set you can usually, carefully bend the barbs back out, to make the terminals lock again when refitted to the plugs.  So if you haven't cut all the wires yet, that might be worth trying first.  If the circular tube part has become misshapen, pushing a mating pin into it can re-shape it back, and if that also means the tube is tighter on the pin, that only increases the effectiveness of the contact, so can make the plug and socket better from an electrical point of view.  Just a thought that may save you replacing the whole thing.

Well done on the technique for re-fitting the sump cleanly and accurately, Anders.

Roy

[Anders Dinsen]

I got my toolset for releasing the pins from the connector. I think I spent more than an hour releasing two pins out of the six - and I'm not sure they're in a good state any more as I compressed them from all sides, so I have more or less given up, will cut the wires, and replace the connector with a standard six way modular connector. This connector is sitting in space created by the bulge in the chassis under the right hand rear light and there's a decent amount of space there for the bigger connector, so the only problem with this solution is that while the original connector can easily pass through the holes in the chassis, the 6 way modular connector which I'm going to replace it with can not. Fortunately it will be easier to release the pins after which the loom will be able to pass.

Whilst I can understand that even with the correct tools these tiny terminals are often difficult to release and be withdrawn, it is most likely the barbs can be flattened in the process.  However, with a small tool such as in a pick set you can usually, carefully bend the barbs back out, to make the terminals lock again when refitted to the plugs.  So if you haven't cut all the wires yet, that might be worth trying first.  If the circular tube part has become misshapen, pushing a mating pin into it can re-shape it back, and if that also means the tube is tighter on the pin, that only increases the effectiveness of the contact, so can make the plug and socket better from an electrical point of view.  Just a thought that may save you replacing the whole thing.

Well done on the technique for re-fitting the sump cleanly and accurately, Anders.

Roy

The problem with the pins seems to be that even though I pushed in the locking pins, I still could not get the terminals out. Somehow the shape of the housing and the terminals mate in such a way that it is almost impossible. I'm going to give it another try, but for the two terminals that I managed to extract, I worked so much that I worry that I have damaged the housing.

Thanks a lot! I'm satisfied with the result so far. The engine now has a fresh oil filter and new synthetic oil. I wanted to crank it to get the oil thrown around a bit, but my garage-battery needed a recharge and I realized that my charger has died and need a new thyristor....

/Anders

[Anders Dinsen]

I have run into a small problem with the sump due to the fitting without the gasket. It turns out that due to the lack of the 1.8 mm thick gasket and spacers, a few of the sump bolts have reached the bottom of the thread cut in the bolt holes in the engine block. I noticed that some washers were loose - I didn't notice when I did the bolts this weekend.

I'll undo those bolts and put an extra washer on, but this is really where my fitting-with-the-engine-in-the-car has become awkward. Have I had the engine on a stand, I would have noticed immediately when trial fitting, and would have cut the threads deeper to take the bolts.

I'm starting the refitting of components on the engine. I dismantled, cleaned and greased the distributor earlier this week, and I've also prepared the thermostat housing for fitting.

This evening, I fitted and connected the alternator. I realized that the bolts I bought were just a little too short to take the added thickness of the "strækfisk" (I love that norwegian word for turnbuckle), so I need to go to the shop again.

/Anders

[roy4matra]

I have run into a small problem with the sump due to the fitting without the gasket. It turns out that due to the lack of the 1.8 mm thick gasket and spacers, a few of the sump bolts have reached the bottom of the thread cut in the bolt holes in the engine block. I noticed that some washers were loose - I didn't notice when I did the bolts this weekend.

I'll undo those bolts and put an extra washer on, but this is really where my fitting-with-the-engine-in-the-car has become awkward. Have I had the engine on a stand, I would have noticed immediately when trial fitting, and would have cut the threads deeper to take the bolts.

/Anders

Rather than having to drill the holes deeper and thread them down further into the block, which is awkward when you would be working from underneath, why not shorten the bolts a little?  Since we are only talking of two threads, and small 7 mm bolts, I would use my Dremel with a cutting disc, holding the bolts in my bench vice and then cut the ends off each one that fouls.  Or if you didn't want to cut the originals down, then possibly obtain some new ones that are a bit shorter, if such are available? However, knowing how bolt lengths tend to change up or down in 5 mm steps, the next shorter ones may be too short, although I don't think they would be, but I haven't one to hand to check its length.  There are 22 of the small 7 mm ones as well as the two large bolts near the clutch bell housing.  Do all the 7 mm ones bottom out, and are the two large bolts bottoming too?

Thanks for this information Anders, as I am now forewarned and will check mine 'dry' before I fit my sump to the one I'm building up and was going to trial the sump fitting without any gasket.  It is little problems like this that I like to see and overcome before I normally pass on any modification suggestions for other owners, but you have beaten me to doing this modification!  I still think this will eventually be the better way to seal the sump to the engine as well as keeping it solid so the engine and sump move together and the vibrations cannot disturb the seal and create an oil leak.

Roy

[Anders Dinsen]

Rather than having to drill the holes deeper and thread them down further into the block, which is awkward when you would be working from underneath, why not shorten the bolts a little?

That is certainly a possibility as well, but I'm not 100% convinced that the problem is lack of thread depth, I'm thinking it could also be dirt or something else, so for now I'll rectify with an additional washer as it can be reverted easily should I find that I have overlooked something.

Thanks for this information Anders, as I am now forewarned and will check mine 'dry' before I fit my sump to the one I'm building up and was going to trial the sump fitting without any gasket.  It is little problems like this that I like to see and overcome before I normally pass on any modification suggestions for other owners, but you have beaten me to doing this modification!  I still think this will eventually be the better way to seal the sump to the engine as well as keeping it solid so the engine and sump move together and the vibrations cannot disturb the seal and create an oil leak.

You're very welcome. Your enthusiasm about this possible solution made me want to try it, and since I was able to trial fit until I knew everything would fit well, only overlooking the length of the bolts, I was completely without doubt when I did it. I agree, this is a much better way to seal the sump!

[Anders Dinsen]

I have had another look at the bolts in the sump. After checking and rechecking I found three bolts that were not seated. I checked that the problem was not that that silicone gasket had leaked into the bolt hole and come in the way blocking the bottom of the hole. On one, I just found a slightly shorter bolt in my box, one now has two washers, and one (the long one on the front inlet side of the engine) was replaced with a somewhat more shorter bolt. I guess the learning point here is that the bolts should be checked and possibly shorted when there's no original gasket or spacer.

Since the last post, I've also fitted the clutch slave cylinder remembering to grease it well and fit the locking ring the right way around.

Finally, I've fitted the supplementary water pump and realized that now that the engine wiring loom is fitted on the chassis, ignition coil and ignition module, the wiring to the connector on my otherwise perfect wiring loom is too short. I only have myself to blame for that mistake.

Edit: This evening, I have fitted the rear roll bar and cleaned the long gear change rod to prepare it to be painted with black Hammerite.

/Anders

[Anders Dinsen]

Progress is steady.

I've fitted the long gearchange rod after painting it with Hammerite. The gear change feels very good. I have not modified anything, just fixed everything.

I've also corrected my engine wiring loom and refitted that.

All water hoses and the two pipes are now fitted, as well as the thermostat housing, so I'm almost ready to fill water on.

I have a few electrical checks to do today before I do that, and I have also decided to rectify two hose connections, one being the return hose from the thermostat housing to the water pipe on the inlet side of the engine (this connection is for heating the inlet manifold on a normal 2.2 but is straight on an S/K142), and the other is the thermostat housing vent hose going to the top of the header tank.

The return hose suffers with a sharp bend from the thermostat housing, so I'm going to order a 90 degree knee to improve that, and the 6 mm silicone vent hose I had is too short. This puzzled me as I had it fitted before removing the engine, but there was a catch: When I originally fitted this piece silicone vent hose, I had the original header tank fitted, which had a 16 mm stud on the top so the factory fitted a plastic 16-6 mm converter (I had already upgraded this to a brass converter). However, when I fitted one of the aluminium header tanks we had made some years ago, the converter was no longer necessary. I frankly don't remember why, but instead of fitting a correct length 6 mm silicone hose, I replaced the 16 mm piece with piece of 6 mm rubber hos and a 6-6 mm plastic connector - obviously a temporary and sub-optimal solution

At least I only have myself to blame for that, but I'll be ordering the 90 degree 16 mm knee and the correct length of 6 mm vent hose before progressing.

I've also measured up the exhaust manifold which had a broken flange towards the U bend connecting to the muffler. I have gotten a new stainless repair piece for that as well as a a few other exhaust parts. The welder has time for doing the work for me in about a week from now. He will also fit the bung for the O2 sensor. The sensor bung will have to be fitted close to the flange to come free of the gear change mechanism.

Finally, Roy, I reread your fuel system article start to end. It's really an excellent article, and much better and more informative than the short instruction from Matra on moving the tank vent from the filer to the top of the tank. Thanks again, for reminding me of that!

At the end of your fuel system article, you mention that Ron suggests putting a T-piece in the return hose from the carburettors and venting off from that with a one way valve, eliminating the need of drilling a new hole in the tank. I have not had a return hose on my car since I converted to an electrical Hüco membrane pump years ago when I fitted the sidedraught Webers so I just have a piece of 6 mm fuel hose sealed off with a bolt sticking up from the tank. It therefore dawned upon me that I can just leave the orignal, factory fitted vent in place, fit a T-piece in the plastic hose venting out under the car, and connect the T to the return hose stud via a one way valve.

The picture shows that the evenings are getting shorter, but that I have light in the garage and a bench outside for having beer with friends on. Yes, this is an invitation, in case you're around

The light is powered from an old 12V battery and I've put a 60W solar cell the roof to charge it during the day. I will be buying a correct battery for the Murena soon. I will then connect the two in parallel through a pair of Anderson-connectors so the solar cell will keep the Murena battery charged, even when the car is left unused for some time. I will buy a standard lead-acid battery, keeping it charged will extend its life.

/Anders 

[roy4matra]

Progress is steady.

[snipped]

The return hose suffers with a sharp bend from the thermostat housing, so I'm going to order a 90 degree knee to improve that...

This it the connection that I have moved to the unused connection below the temp. gauge sender, as in my cooling system article.  It means the vent hose has a gentle curve away and not the tight 180 degree of the original.  Moving that connection also left the ideal place to fit the engine temp. switch as it has exactly the correct thread.

Finally, Roy, I reread your fuel system article start to end. It's really an excellent article, and much better and more informative than the short instruction from Matra on moving the tank vent from the filer to the top of the tank. Thanks again, for reminding me of that!

Thanks Anders, I have rechecked it, and it seems to be still up to date.  Moving the tank vent valve to the top of the fuel tank has proved to have a few benefits and is something I seriously recommend all Murena owners should do.

Since changing mine I have found, first that I can now fill much quicker without any blowback.  Second, you can fill the tank and not have to worry about any overflow from the tank, since the large air space above the maximum filling point (which is the top of the filler hose connection) can easily accommodate any expansion of the fuel as it warms up.  The vent valve is so high compared to the top of the fuel in the tank, that no fuel will ever contaminate the valve and therefore cause it to stick or fail to vent either in or out, as happened originally.  Consequently, I have had no more occurrences of any tank vacuum or inrush of air when removing the fuel cap after a long run from a full tank.  And since you can never have any pool of fuel under the parked car from the overflow, it now prevents any danger of fire from igniting any fuel vapour under the starter motor.

At the end of your fuel system article, you mention that Ron suggests putting a T-piece in the return hose from the carburettors and venting off from that with a one way valve, eliminating the need of drilling a new hole in the tank. I have not had a return hose on my car since I converted to an electrical Hüco membrane pump years ago when I fitted the sidedraught Webers so I just have a piece of 6 mm fuel hose sealed off with a bolt sticking up from the tank. It therefore dawned upon me that I can just leave the orignal, factory fitted vent in place, fit a T-piece in the plastic hose venting out under the car, and connect the T to the return hose stud via a one way valve.

Please remember the tank vent valve has to be able to vent both ways, to vent pressure as you fill the tank, and to allow air in to prevent a vacuum as the tank contents are used up.

The picture shows that the evenings are getting shorter, but that I have light in the garage and a bench outside for having beer with friends on. Yes, this is an invitation, in case you're around

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind!

Roy

[roy4matra]

... At the end of your fuel system article, you mention that Ron suggests putting a T-piece in the return hose from the carburettors and venting off from that with a one way valve, eliminating the need of drilling a new hole in the tank.

(I didn't pick up on this previously, Anders)

Yes but Ron had saved drilling a hole in the top of the tank because he fitted the vent valve in the tank sender unit flange.  There was just enough room.  You still need to get rid of the original vent valve in the filler neck behind the filler cap (but behind the bodywork) as that is lower than the fuel level as it expands and will still potentially cause problems.  And his solution also forgot about the need to open as the fuel is used up and the level drops.

I have not had a return hose on my car since I converted to an electrical Hüco membrane pump years ago when I fitted the sidedraught Webers ...

But this is different.  The reason for the fuel return hose to the tank, is to prevent a build up of fuel pressure on the carburettor needle valves as they try to close when the float bowls are full.  Sometimes this pressure means the float bowls overfill slightly (or even get stuck occasionally) causing rich mixtures and/or flooding.  This was important at the time of the design, to allow carburettors to meet the tightening emission regulations.  Blocking off the return line means the car breaks those regulations.

It therefore dawned upon me that I can just leave the orignal, factory fitted vent in place, fit a T-piece in the plastic hose venting out under the car, and connect the T to the return hose stud via a one way valve.

/Anders  

No, you should not leave the original vent valve in place in the filler neck, close behind the filler cap.  It is lower than the expanded fuel level and will still cause problems.  Simply remove it and cap it off.

Also you say - use a one way valve, but as I pointed out you need a valve that can vent out and allow air in too.  If you look at the valve spec. it has an over-pressure vent figure AND and under-pressure opening figure.  So a one way valve will allow venting out as the fuel expands, but will not allow air in as the full tank fuel is used up and you will create a vacuum.  I was wrong when I said my article was still OK - I had forgotten about the under-pressure.  It is now modified.

If you wish to save drilling the top of the tank, then you could tee in the original vent valve with some short rubber hose pieces above the fuel return from the carburettors to the sender flange.

Roy

[Anders Dinsen]

(I didn't pick up on this previously, Anders)

Thanks Roy for picking up on it now and for your advice against my idea! As I have the engine out again, drilling the tank and sealing off the original hole is rather easy as I can now stand in there to complete the work.

Roy, you know what happened, but the reason I have not been updating lately is that progress turned to regress as I tested the water system by connecting all hoses, filling up with water and running the main electrical water pump. Now, this pump is rather powerful when it runs full speed (as it was, I had connected it directly to my 12V battery in the garage) pumping 80l/minute - that's more than a litre a second. So even though the water was cold as the engine was not running, this was a good test. Actually, it was a perfect test, as it revealed a major defect which I noticed when I wanted to check the water flow through the hose with the vent screw exiting from the thermostat housing and put down the end of a zip tie through the hole. The zip tie was not only wet, but OILY!

The blurry picture below shows what I saw when I took off the valve cover: Notice the blue coolant in the oil.

The second picture shows the valve train after I had sucked most of the oil and water away using my hand driven oil change pump (I bought it some years ago for changing oil on a Smart CDI engine that didn't have a drain plug, but I'm now finding it very handy.

The third picture shows where the problem is as the head gasket was clearly not sealing in the corner of the leftmost cylinder on the exhaust side where there are both water channels and an oil return line. Notice how the hole for the cylinder head bolt is not round.

The fourth and last picture for now shows the issue namely that the left rear bolt hole in the cylinder head has a small indent which came when it was welded and polished for my years ago. When I fitted the cylinder head, this bolt could not reach the thread in the block so I filed enough off the indent to make the bolt fit. Obviously the gasket was damaged in the process and/or the bolt was never tight enough.

The cylinder head is now with a local machine shop for proper drilling of the bolt hole and minimal skimming of the head. The water channels will also be pressure tested, just for peace of mind. Meanwhile I'm doing other work which I'll share later.

/Anders