| Home  Blogs Help Search Login Register  
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] Print
Author Topic: Rear trailing arms... 2.2 vs. 1.6  (Read 19826 times)
Spyros
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 323

I'm a real donkey!


WWW
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2008, 12:28:53 am »


But it's the choice of the owner, which is doing a lot of work and decided not to cut into the chassis
And ... soon or later, turning to other power sources will be mandatory if we will want to use our Matras.



Anders,

I feel obliged to quote myself to try to convince you that I also think that this is a heavy work.
I also admire the additional difficulty of preserving the chassis.
But I think there is something wrong in the attitude of knowing since the start that there is a problem with project and to let it go, just to be polite with the person.
If Waldo is doing such a conversion, it's his choice and I respect this. As an HDI conversion.
It's the "Let's tune it to 140 pk and that should be good for 200000 km without attention" that is silly. 
Nothing else.
I don't want to change his mind to do this project. I'd like him to open his eyes and to consider if tuning an old engine is really the way to go when the goal is to do 200000 km .
I'm also having some odd conversion project and the goal is first to have it working.
Logged
Waldo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 187

Diesel power :o)


« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2008, 07:27:42 am »

Hi Spyros...

It seems I know more about these engines than you! Will reply a little later today... but you are SO wrong  Wink

Can I just tell you I have had 3 HDI engine with 380k, 345k and 465k without ANY problems apart from the pulley mentioned... and cleaning the EGR, not disconnecting  Cool

The HDI is a very solid engine, and I don't share Spyros' opinion on the electrical circuit... Yes you need to know what you are working at, but these engines are easy to tune, very inexpensive and can be found easy used... also parts are very easy to pick up at breakers.

I guess to have 320Nm/140BHP that should be good for 200,000km without much attention.
Undecided
For 140 Pk and reliability you need to think about a 2.2 HDI.
But, have you heard about the damper puley issue ?
Have you heard about the "special clutch" ?
Have you heard about the EGR valve that is far from simple to disconnect without generating another electric alarm that will lock the engine. ?
Have you seen the tar that you can remove from this EGR valve that will strangle your admission ?
Have you heard about these marvlous exhaust that rust and snap at the welding (impossible to repair)
Did you think that even the 110 pk engines needs a heat exchanger and that a heat exchanger need a lot of fresh air that you will NOT get in the engine bay ?
Did you see that the good breakers will try to get ALL the peripherics up to the contact key because when this is not recognized you get plenty of electrical issues ?
Have you heard about the fact that some of them have a very very problematic Siemens fule pump (Bosch is no issue) ?
Did you hear about all the HDI who stops because of a bad electrical contact "somewhere" ..
Or Lock themselves in "safe" mode, so that you can drive at 1500 rpm maximum
Or do it when the engine is at temperature ?
Have you heard people being told that there is "a problem" with the injectors and that all the system needs to be replaced at a cost more expensive than their car value ?µ
Have you heard about new precharge pump that don't provide enough presure ?

There a LOTS of issues with these engines and 200.000 km without much attention, forget about it. Never !
When with the 1300 , 1440 , 1590 cc Matra engine, 300.000 km are possible, most of these HDI don't get to that milleage.

Last issues in February this year : Engine stop while driving. Not able to diagnose the possible cause, several Citroen diagnostics. The only wrong thing discovered was a pre heating plugs control box. Can you tell me what this could have to do when you have the issue when driving ?
Box replaced (and only that) and the issue disappeared.   
... for 10.000 km and comes back (or another one)
Then only thing done : replacing the still good battery by a better one, new.
And ... the issue is gone again.
What could be the battery impact on a diesel engine running Huh And when the alternator is delivering corrctly ?

Is that what you are thinking reliable ?

I'm living with this engine every day and I can tell you that at 200.000 Km, you just think about throwing it away. And this with the standard untuned power. I got before that a XUD 11 ATE and at 300.000 km, I was far from thinking the same
Logged
Spyros
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 323

I'm a real donkey!


WWW
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2008, 08:56:26 am »

Dear Waldo,

1 million 200 thousand km driving experience with 1 engine is difficult to beat.
Post if this is helping you but this is useless. There is no hope to convince me.

I wish you good luck.
Logged
Waldo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 187

Diesel power :o)


« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2008, 09:54:39 am »

But, have you heard about the damper puley issue ?

Yes I know about the damper pulley issues, and when you are aware of this, it's an easy job to change the pulley with every 2nd cambelt change!

Have you heard about the "special clutch" ?

I believe the clutch you are refering to is the dual mass clutch found on the RHZ(DW10ATED) engine... This is a "strange" construction, that isn't used on my RHY (DW10TD) engine. The clutch on the RHY is usually good for approx. 300Nm and a upgraded clutch (good for 400Nm) can be bought for 230€...

Have you heard about the EGR valve that is far from simple to disconnect without generating another electric alarm that will lock the engine. ?

Why should I disconnect the EGR  Huh It's there for a good reason!
Lower admission, lower fuel consumption and better torque when running part throttle...

Have you seen the tar that you can remove from this EGR valve that will strangle your admission ?

Yes I have cleaned the EGR system more than once on the HDI... The problem is mainly there when running long service intervals... I'm always doing 10-12,000 oil change intervals and cleaning the EGR every 150-200,000km is fine.

Have you heard about these marvlous exhaust that rust and snap at the welding (impossible to repair)

Not using the standard exhuast... but yes I agree the PSA exhuast connection are crap!

Did you think that even the 110 pk engines needs a heat exchanger and that a heat exchanger need a lot of fresh air that you will NOT get in the engine bay ?

I'm using a charge cooler as mentioned... by the way, the RHY can be run at 120bhp without any extra cooling.

Did you see that the good breakers will try to get ALL the peripherics up to the contact key because when this is not recognized you get plenty of electrical issues ?

I'm not stupid... I bought a complete car in UK and have the complete electrics up to the egnition key!
This is also the best way to get parts, buying a car in the UK and selling it on as spare parts. That way I can usually get an engine with accesories for free...

Have you heard about the fact that some of them have a very very problematic Siemens fule pump (Bosch is no issue) ?

Guess what... I made sure to get an Bosch  Grin

Did you hear about all the HDI who stops because of a bad electrical contact "somewhere" ..
Or Lock themselves in "safe" mode, so that you can drive at 1500 rpm maximum
Or do it when the engine is at temperature ?
Have you heard people being told that there is "a problem" with the injectors and that all the system needs to be replaced at a cost more expensive than their car value ?µ
Have you heard about new precharge pump that don't provide enough presure ?


No I never had a HDI engine lock itself into safe mode without a reason... Using the diagnostic tool have always helped me!
Injectors problems are not very common, and new injectors can be found at very reasonable cost.
Here in Denmark we consider a HDI diesel to be good for at least 350,000km but again we are kind of strange due to the high tax on cars  Wink

When with the 1300 , 1440 , 1590 cc Matra engine, 300.000 km are possible, most of these HDI don't get to that milleage.

But I would hate to go 300,000km with these loud, inefficient and poluting petrol engines  Shocked

I'm living with this engine every day and I can tell you that at 200.000 Km, you just think about throwing it away. And this with the standard untuned power.

I drove 2,000km with the 1590ccm Talbot/Matra engine and was shocked by the dated construction...

Here in Denmark we acually have some of the most experienced guys in HDI tuning, we are having people from Germany and UK coming over to have their Peugeot 206 HDI remapped...

To correct any misunderstandings I haven't driven with HDI engines for 1,200,000km, but between the 4 of my family members who have been running HDI engines I have serviced engines that have done this mileage in total...

I'm not trying to convince anyone, but I don't feel like having Spyros telling me what I can or can't do, when I sure know what I'm doing!
Logged
Waldo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 187

Diesel power :o)


« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2008, 07:43:55 pm »

OK... managed to spend a few hours on the car(s) today!

To answer my own question regarding the trailing arms I took a picture of the 1.6 and 2.2 next to each other.



Difference is even bigger than I thought, so give me the needed space for the HDI gearbox  Grin

By the way, the chassis have been modified greatly to accomodate the larger 2.2 engine. If anyone if looking to install custom engines in a Murena, I would suggest to use a 2.2 as the base  Tongue

I have taken a few extra pictures to show how I'm getting on.


2.2 donor car during some TLC  Grin


Can you spot something wrong? Not sure the engine is fit for fight  Shocked


2nd hand charge cooler to be fitted


New alternator belt installed... Needed to relocate the spring loaded tensioner slightly. As the power steering and aircon pumps are gone belt is also a lot shorter.
I found the power steering belt from a Citröen ZX 1.4 to be a perfect fit.

I'll keep you posted... next up is renovating the trailing arms and installing the charge cooler and fuel pump!
Logged
Bart_Maztra
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 207



« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2008, 08:26:11 pm »

Wow, These trailing arms are making a lot of difference! You can realy see the 2.2 ones are designed to make room for the gearbox.  The anti-roll bar of a 2.2 is the same width as a 1.6 So you can see the 2.2 trailing arm has about 5 cm more space. Using 2.2 traling arms when doing an engine conversion in a 1.6 is a clever thing to do. (but might be expensive)
Logged

Waldo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 187

Diesel power :o)


« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2008, 01:05:25 pm »

If anyone is having thoughts about fitting a charge cooler?
I can inform that a system similar to the one shown above is listed on ebay.co.uk.
It seems to be a good choice/fit for the Murena...
Logged
krede
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1166



« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2008, 03:26:15 pm »

link please Smiley
Logged
Waldo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 187

Diesel power :o)


« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2008, 05:01:22 pm »

link please Smiley

Hmm... you couldn't search yourself  Tongue

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rs-turbo-charge-cooler_W0QQitemZ300233716704QQihZ020QQcategoryZ21654QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This one looks to be in better condition (like perfect), but mine was also good and less expensive!

I have put in a bid on the unit allready, just to test the reserve that have been set. 150£ is lower than the reserve I can inform you  Wink
Logged
krede
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1166



« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2008, 09:41:21 pm »

I'll bid on it to if you dont mind... but I'm not certain that he will ship to Denmark.
Logged
Waldo
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 187

Diesel power :o)


« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2008, 10:08:53 pm »

Hi Krede,

Of course you are welcome to bid... that's the idea of an auction  Wink

I'm not going to put any further bids on the system, so I won't raise the price against you  Grin

Have you tried asking him about shipping?
In general my experience is that most do ship to Denmark if asked kindly...
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 10:11:07 pm by Waldo » Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to: