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Author Topic: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted  (Read 69516 times)
JL
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« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2009, 12:11:38 am »

Hello Spyros

At the time we looking at the 1600cc unit we only had access to a Solara unit, the 1442cc blocks that we used were from Alpine/Horizon (UK names) in which we used the distributer and camshaft from a rear engine Simca 1000.

The crankshaft from the front engined cars also required modification to the oil gallery at the bearing end.

The original idea was to build a very high revving unit with a short stroke crank from a 1294cc and forged pistons until we discovered the offset bores - a shame we did not have an equidistant bore block; what were they used in?

Regards
John
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Spyros
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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2009, 12:58:43 pm »

Hi John,

I need to have a look.

But, these 1600 blocks are somewhat strange. They have not been produce in as large numbers as the others but you find plenty of differences in them.

I have 5 of them and the 3 ones easy to look at are all different (small differencies)
The 2 other ones are in running cars (1 in a Bagheera and the other one in a Solara with the similar to Murena gearbox)
I speak about the gearbox because I removed one off my others from a Solara and this one had a BE1 gearbox. The crankshaft end is different. I already saw 3 1600 different types of crankshaft, not including the potential difference with ball roll or bronze bearing at the gearbox side.

I know that the oil gallery modification is mandatory but I saw quite a number of Rallye II using 1600 units.

I'll need to post a topic about that.

I also know a portuguese friend who, in period, rebored a 1442 engine to the bigger pistons. This was surprising to me knowing the little distance between some of the bores

Regards
Spyros
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andyowl
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2009, 01:08:14 pm »

Roll cage progress...
I have received a quote from Custom Cages in Daventry England for £650 + tax for a Weld-it-yourself 4 point cage. 7-10 days to make but they cannot start until March 9th.

Andy Robinson Race Cars have a budget qt of £1260+tax (Wow!)

There are cages on eBay too plus companies selling the components to make your own (although the main roll bar over the driver's head must be in one piece.

Andy
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JL
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2009, 02:38:50 pm »

Hi Spyros

I think your friend was very lucky, to achieve the 1380 we did overbore the 1442 block but not by that much; the cylinder walls must have been very slim.

The 1600 is a usable unit but it is more unreliable with continual high revs, in a Rallye 2 in competition trim they must have relied on the extra torque rather than outright horsepower I would think. No problem for the road though.

Andy

If you get hold of an RAC blue book it will tell you the requirements for a competition cage including steel specs and sizes.
The material is not too expensive from a steel tube stockholder and many engineering workshops have tube bending facilities, measure carefully and get a friend with a welder on the case.
Having made roll cages in the past I think that your main difficulty will be trying to make diagonal bracing (a must) for the main hoop as it will need to go behind the seats.

Good Luck.

John
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Spyros
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2009, 03:27:51 pm »

Thinking about the cage, I remember some picture of a crashed Bagheera.

It should be similar to Murena. I might t seems that at a point, it the complete front leg which is bending at the base so that the top will end up with the dashboard on your knees. Perhaps a good idea to have a brace going to the top of front suspension ?
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andyowl
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2009, 05:38:14 pm »

I don't want to think about a "crashed Bagheera"! I wonder where the "Crumple Zone" might end. There is not a lot of metal between the passengers and the accident, even when it was new, never mind 30 years later.

Andy
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andyowl
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2009, 08:51:13 am »

Spyros,

My French is not good enough to compose an understandable message for the Bagheera cafe. I wonder if you could put a message there for me about my search for a Series 2 Roll Cage?

I found a roll cage for a Porsche 911 on eBay and believing that it was around the same size as a Bagheera I put in a bid for about 300Euro. Overnight I decided that I was wasting my money buying a cage I had not even measured and trusting that I could modify it and make it fit correctly. Had it been in a crash? Was my welding good enough?Huh Safety is not something to economise on!

Happily I was outbid and it sold for 320Euro. Now I need to place an order for a custom made cage.

Andy
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andyowl
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2009, 09:17:15 am »

The roll cage search is over, unless you know better!

I have placed on order for a roll cage from "Custom Cages" in Daventry, England for around £650 / 730Euro +tax. They make the cage and I fit it to the car. A good compromise perhaps? All the other suppliers wanted twice, three or four times that sum. Way outside budget! So thanks for your help and the discussion.

I have also ordered some "sticky" tyres from Yokohama - the A048-R. They will go on original Bagheera alloy wheels which had 175/70 and 205/70 tyres as an option (my Reparation guide tells me). I couldn't find any tyres of the right size that were within the approved MSA/FIA tyre list. So I have ordered 175/60 R13 and 205/60 R13. Slightly lower gearing for Sprints and Hill Climbs may give some advantage even if they will not look quite right.

Now a question for all the Graphic Designers on the list...

I want to get a "sunstrip" for the windscreen that says "Matra-Simca Bagheera" or just "Matra Bagheera". Who makes such things? And does anyone know the name of the type face or "font" used by Matra e.g. for the rear panel on a Bagheera?

Andy

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Spyros
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2009, 05:32:09 pm »

Beware of the XAS and XVS sizes. Compared to modern tyres of identical dimension, you'll see a serious difference.

The font for serie 2 Bagheera is microgramma bold extended.
If you cannot find a free one on the web, let me know.

Of course in order to get the same graphical effect, you'll need to outline it and to narrow (negative value) the space between the letters.
Those who bought my manual have an example.
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andyowl
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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2009, 12:57:17 am »

Baggy Joseph is ready to go tomorrow to have his roll cage fitted on schedule. We found more corrosion that we expected when we first looked at him and in consequence he has not yet had his annual test. This cannot now happen until he comes back from the roll cage installation and my guess is that it will be early April before he can participate in his first competitive event.

But we have made lots of progress given that the last time the car operated was 1995! The engine is now running very sweetly with no sign of over-heating. The gearbox is fine and the clutch is free. I have not had him out of first gear yet (in our driveway) and that was only last week after we got all the brakes working. New discs all round, refurbished "like new" calipers, new pads and new brake fluid. The heater and fan work, the air horns work now they have a compressor. The wipers and washers work too. We have contined to remove all the layers of old paint and we have removed: Blue, Red, original grey and we are now down to the GRP on doors, rear wings, sills, nose cone top and the front hatch. The new Yokohama sticky tyres are fitted on the refurbished Bagheera alloys and we took some pictures for the MECUK magazine this week. I have removed the original twin passenger seat and found an old driver's seat for Charlie's Navigator office (my wife). The old seat does not have an adjustable back and Phil Kitch tells me that it comes from a 1973 Series 1 Bagheera. We have found a local company who will re-cover both these seats after we have made holes in the head rests to take the 4 point FIA safety harnesses. Today I took the windscreen out without breaking it just in case the roll cage people put a hole in it by mistake! We have the safety harnesses and their eyebolt anchor points. We also have a 2.2kg fire extinguisher with two discharge points (for the cabin and for the engine compartment).

Tomorrow I was to have collected my race suit, helmet and gloves (all FIA approved) but Sparco have let us down on delivery and Grand Prix Racewear tell me that it will be mid-March before they are delivered.

I have entered an AutoSolo on March 22nd but Baggy Joseph will not be ready. Charlie has agreed that we can enter our original Baggy Grey as this is supposed to be for road cars anyway. They should get used to this strange 3 seater car as soon as possible. But it only has two seats now! The only two-seater Bagheera in captivity perhaps?

I was going to attach some pictures but I see that they are too big at 2.2Mb. Now I need to figure out how to reduce the file size! Any suggestions?

We are expecting him back in two weeks but in the meantime I plan to start painting the rear wings, sills, nose cone and the headlights. Still busy!

with best wishes

Andy Owler
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2009, 07:36:15 pm »

Here are Andy's photos of his car:

« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 07:40:49 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
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Spyros
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2009, 12:45:35 am »

Andy,

What are the dimensions of the rear tyrs ?
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andyowl
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 08:06:59 am »

Spyros wrote...

"...What are the dimensions of the rear tyres ?..."

I have fitted 175/60 R13 on the front and 205/60 R13 on the rear. Our other Bagheeras that have 205 size on the rear have had a little of the GRP wheel arch and the rear bumper removed to give some extra clearance. But otherwise they work very well.

I was recommended to visit a web site which has a very comprehensive tyre calculator system. You can enter your present tyre size and then select another size for comparison. It calculates the differences such as overall diameter, revolutions per km and mile, speedometer error etc.  and tells you other dimensions such as actual width and height. I found it very helpful!

http://www.tyretraders.com/Tyrecalculator/

I did not realise until yesterday that a tyre size without the "../60.." after the width implies an aspect ratio ("Profile") of 80%. Any tyre with a profile lower than this will be shown as ../60  or ../70 etc. All original Bagheera tyres were therefore 80% profile.

wbw

Andy
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Spyros
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« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2009, 01:14:15 pm »

I think it's more complex that serie 80. If you mesure original XAS you'll see that they are too narrow to compare to modern rubbers.
 
How is the cage fitting ?
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andyowl
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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2009, 02:48:57 pm »

We delivered Baggy Joe to Custom Cages last Monday (March 2nd) and it has gone very quiet!

I expect to receive some pictures by email of their trial set-up for comment and approval, hopefully this coming week.

I'll keep you up to date.

Andy Owler

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