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Author Topic: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted  (Read 67301 times)
andyowl
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« on: January 27, 2009, 08:50:21 am »

I am looking for a motorsport Roll Cage for a Bagheera. Ideally an FIA approved version but any type considered. Minimum of 4 mounting points (behind the seats and beside the door hinge  posts). But two extra mounting points in the engine compartment would be better still.

I have found manufacturers in the UK who will make me a "special" 1 off example but you may know of one already available (or have suggestions where I might look).
Thanks
Andy
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Stig
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2009, 02:32:07 pm »

Hi Andy,

Unfortunately I do not have any ideas on finding a roll cage.
Have you tried posting at bagheera-cafe.com ?

It would however be very interesting to hear more about the race car project I assume you are working on  Smiley

Best regards,

Stig
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Spyros
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2009, 07:43:30 pm »

Hi Andy,
 
Project with a compressor ?
Roll cage like this one ?
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andyowl
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 09:33:38 am »

Dear Stig and Spyros, Thanks for the replies. The 4 point cage in the rally Bagheera is what I had in mind. The foam rubber protection by the navigator's head seems larger than I would expect, but I am still learning the rules.

I took the Rene Bonnet Djet to a Rally Car Day at Castle Combe last year. We were on the Renault Classic Car stand as this  Djet has a Gordini 1149cc engine and the whole car is based on R8 parts. It has all the sporting modifications such as Roll Cage, electrical master switch, 4 point safety harness, straps for the bonnet and tailgate, oil catch tank, etc. Friends I made there have inspired me to try competition driving but I need a vehicle. The owner of the Djet, understandably, does not want it used in competition, and my wife "Charlie" vetoed me using any of our other cars, so it was time to do something about the French 1977 Bagheera I purchased in 1993. I wanted to convert it to centre drive, take the roof off to become a cabriolet, paint it yellow and add a supercharger (of which I already have two.)

Charlie supports the competition plans in principle and painting it "liquid yellow" from the 2004 BMW/MINI range is now agreed. I have a 1.6 Murena engine and a Shorrock supercharger from a 1.6 Cortina. Sounds possible. I also have a Wade blower from a Rover SD1 V8 3 litre (which sounds seriously over-the-top but great fun for a short time!). So I will achieve two of my four objectives. Not bad.

I got my MSA Competition Licence in January and all I need now is  the Baggy ready to compete in Sprints and Hill Climbs. I would also like to try AutoTests and Trials where the poor Bagheera power-to-weight ratio will not be such a disadvantage. My first event is in late March. Not a lot of time.

Not yet planning on circuit racing - I don't have enough experience - but a track day or two would help sort out the car. It is already insured for road use with the 1.6 engine fitted and the supercharger for only 200Euro total. Very good value, but that is one advantage of being a Grandfather!

Keep looking!

Andy

PS I didn't understand the Spyros reference to a compressor??
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RazorbackNOR
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 10:08:10 am »

This sounds terrific!!  Grin

You have to post some pictures of this beatuy!
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andyowl
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 11:38:55 am »

The pictures at this stage would only depress anyone who has restored a Bagheera!

We are off to the painters today to get quotes for the paint job.

At the moment the car is called "Baggy Joseph" as he has a "coat of many colours". The top coat is French Blue, the one under that is a dark red, under that is a light grey "high build primer" I think, and then the dark grey Gel coat for the GRP. We had a small section of the front hatch blasted yesterday to find out what was there (apart from cracks and stone chips). There is a lot of hard work to be done by someone before we start to apply good paint!

Andy Owler
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Stig
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 09:42:09 pm »

Hi Andy,

I am pretty sure Spyros is refering to a supercharger. I have seen it called a compressor elsewhere.

Regards,

Stig
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Spyros
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 10:14:34 pm »

Andy,

What about a racing Lambo ?
Wife veto ?  Wink
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andyowl
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2009, 10:24:32 am »

That sort of "compressor"! Doh! Apologies for being dense.

Charlie vetoed racing the Urraco but she is a brilliant navigator and we used the Urraco on the Norwich Union Classic Rally last year. We had always used Baggy Grey for that sort of event, including organising the UK Matra Club December Tours, but we switched the Teratrip Rally Computer to the Urraco and now we have a choice! You can see it in the attached picture.

The visit to the painters yesterday was a shock! 4 weeks work and probably 4k Euro. Gulp! Difficult to justify. That does not include the 1,5k Euro for taking the old paint off! I feel a lot of hard work with a sanding machine is on the agenda. Then a DIY paint job. BMW/MINI "liquid yellow" paint is not yet available in spray cans from the aftermarket suppliers. Still thinking what to do.

Andy
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JL
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 04:06:04 pm »

Hi Andy

Sounds an interesting project.

Having built a number of Simca race engines I would not try to extract too much power from the 1600cc unit. To achieve this increased capacity the engines were offset bored which moved the centre line of the conrod away from the centreline of the piston; this means that at high revs you can get flexing along the length of the conrod and after a while the engines tend to let go in a big way. Far better to use a 1442cc unit with a decent quality forged piston, these will rev to 9500 rpm regularly and safely, the bottom end of the Simca unit is very strong(forged steel) as long as it is well balanced. If you intend to rally the car instead of racing, don't use a cam that is too wild - more torque makes for a more forgiving car.

Your paint should be available in spray cans from an automotive paint supplier; they mix the colour for you and then fill the cans, in fact I think that Halfords (UK) also do this service but only with cellulose paint.

Regards
John
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JL
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 04:09:41 pm »

Hello again

I have just remembered that there used to be a guy in the Simca owners club who ran a supercharged Simca 1000, it may be worth sending the owners club an e mail to see if he is still about or if anyone has the car or photographs of the installation.

Regards
John
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andyowl
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 04:31:20 pm »

JL, thanks for the good suggestion ref the Simca club.

One of the merits of supercharging is that you do not have to rev the nuts off the engine to get better horsepower.

But it is nice to know that we can take it to 9,500 r/m!

One of the complications with Bagheera engines is that they do not fit neatly into any of the engine "Classes". The 1294cc Series 1 is less than 1300cc but then you are in the same class as the BMC A series engines e.g. Mini Cooper S! The 1442cc is in the "up to 2000cc" with twin cam ford engines. A blower is rated as adding 40% to the capacity so the 1442cc goes over the 2000cc class limit and would be mixing it with the Cobras and big V8s. A blower on the 1294cc would give a notional 1812cc. Maybe the better option? 1427cc would be ideal (a notional 1999cc) and I was wondering if there is any combination of Simca pistons and crankshafts that would come near?

So many questions!

Andy Owler
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JL
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 06:12:12 pm »

It is a fair while ago that I was building these engines but I seem to remember managing to build an engine of about 1380cc using a 1294 crank with 1442 rods in an overbored 1442 block with some Omega forged pistons. The advantage of this configuration is that with the longer rods in the taller block the angle of the conrod is better and the crank is not trying to push the rod through the side of the block.

One other thing that I used to do was to cut a circular groove in the cyliner head above each cylinder and then make a solid copper ring to fit into this groove so that it protrudes about 20 thou and nips the metal part of the gasket against the block. This allowed me to run a high compression ratio on standard gaskets with never a failure even with a very hot engine.

Also consider running a tuned standard size engine as this will be far less hassle, do not be afraid of a Cooper S, you will have far better traction. I used to succesfully race against 1380cc Cooper S's with my Simca Abarth - a Simca 1000 type saloon with an engine size of about 1380 running on twin 40 DCOE carbs.

If you are considering loose surface rallying, one limiting area you will find on your car is the front suspension but if you stick to tarmac events you should be fine.

Regards
John
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andyowl
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 07:18:20 pm »

With a blower it is usual to lower the compression ratio to reduce the likelyhood of pre-ignition. I didn't do this on the Viva and consequently became expert at changing pistons without taking the cylinder head off! Two gaskets will be worth trying but will not reduce the compression enough.

We are only proposing to participate in non-contact motorsport, at least until I get more experience. Tarmac rallys would be included but the main targets are Sprints and Hillclimbs. AutoSolos and Trials also look interesting especially the latter if I can persuade the Bagheera ride-height adjusters to work again. High for Trials and low for the others. Greg Dalgliesh wrote an article about Bagheera trailing arms recently in the MECUK magazine and described how it can be done.

Your 1380cc engine sounds interesting as well! Almost ideal for the +40% rule!

Thanks again

Andy Owler

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Spyros
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 07:55:15 pm »

To achieve this increased capacity the engines were offset bored which moved the centre line of the conrod away from the centreline of the piston;

John,

May I ask which type of 1600 engine you are speaking about ?
Somes have the bores equidistant, some not

Spyros

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