| Home  Blogs Help Search Login Register  
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] Print
Author Topic: Sorry to the purists! Murena 2.0 !!  (Read 23470 times)
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2015, 11:59:58 pm »

Could there be a benefit in using lead substitute in gasoline to get combustion temperature down?

My personal view is no, it is not going to make enough difference assuming it does run a little cooler and I'm not sure that has been proved.

Quote
These cylinder heads have been created when gasoline was added lead, this was done both to lubricate the valves / valve seats and to keep the temperature down in the combustion chamber.

I'm not sure but you may be referring here to the fact that the TEL (tetra ethyl lead) was used to prevent pre-ignition and 'knock' in higher compression engines, but there are other things at work here than just temperature, which is why I say I haven't seen any specific figures proving TEL causes lower temperatures.  Do you have any details?

Quote
I know that the Murena CAN run on unleaded petrol, but I always use to add lead replacement when I fill up the tank with 98 octane unleaded gasoline.

You always require 97 or more octane with the Murena 2.2 engine, and I always run them with the high octane low-leaded we have today, usually the Shell Nitro as it is now called here, it used to be called Vmax before.  You cannot run the 2.2 on the normal 95 low-leaded and if you do you will get pre-ignition and eventually that will lead to damage.  I have tried the Regular (95) on a number of occasions and none of the Murena 2.2 have run properly, so don't use it.  One person who said his ran fine with 95 grade did not understand that it was pinking, and when I was in it I noticed it straight away and told him to stop using 95 and change to the Super (usually 98 or even 99 octane).

I tried the Regular in conjunction with some of these supposed lead substitute additives, but none worked in my opinion.  Octane boosters may work, but lead substitutes without the octane booster are a waste of money.  The cost of using octane boosters plus the inconvenience of having to carry it and remember to use it, is again a waste of time and money in my opinion because the car runs fine on the Super from the pumps.

Roy
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 12:03:34 am by roy4matra » Logged

Oetker
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1048



« Reply #61 on: February 14, 2015, 06:35:33 am »


You always require 97 or more octane with the Murena 2.2 engine, and I always run them with the high octane low-leaded we have today, usually the Shell Nitro as it is now called here, it used to be called Vmax before.  You cannot run the 2.2 on the normal 95 low-leaded and if you do you will get pre-ignition and eventually that will lead to damage.  I have tried the Regular (95) on a number of occasions and none of the Murena 2.2 have run properly, so don't use it.  One person who said his ran fine with 95 grade did not understand that it was pinking.

I tried the Regular in conjunction with some of these supposed lead substitute additives, but none worked in my opinion.  Octane boosters may work, but lead substitutes without the octane booster are a waste of money.  The cost of using octane boosters plus the inconvenience of having to carry it and remember to use it, is again a waste of time and money in my opinion because the car runs fine on the Super from the pumps.

Roy

I have the same experiences on this with the 2.2.
Even the V-max with Octane 97 I had some pinking.
In that case I add some octaneboosters (yes they help)
There are 2 pumps in my neigborhood that provide 98 and that is where I always go.
That will end in the near future and it will be unavailable so I wanted the cars on GPL.
I think this is necessary because the new bio fuel will kill the engine in my opnion and the GPL has higher then 100 octane as far as I know.
The governement however desided to put the high tax on oltimers younger then 40 years and on GPL it is skyhigh.
That crossed my plans.
I already had all the material to do the job in the house.
No matter what people tell, use the 98 for the 2.2 is my opinion to.
There are some documents flying around the web telling different but my user manual say 98 (1982)

The WRONG document.


The book tells only super wich was RON98 in the 80s in our country.


The 1.6 however has no problems with the 95 octane but that one will even run on diesel  Grin

Herman
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 07:28:21 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2015, 09:23:54 am »

I have the same experiences on this with the 2.2.
Even the V-max with Octane 97 I had some pinking.
In that case I add some octaneboosters (yes they help)
There are 2 pumps in my neigborhood that provide 98 and that is where I always go.
That will end in the near future and it will be unavailable...

I am sorry to hear that Herman.  We have a big movement in Britain called the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs, where the Classic Car Clubs join together and have one body that fights for our rights to use our old cars, and help to keep the things we need like suitable fuels.

Quote
so I wanted the cars on GPL.  I think this is necessary because the new bio fuel will kill the engine in my opnion and the GPL has higher then 100 octane as far as I know.

You will still need some petrol because you need to start the car up on it and maybe warm it a little before it will run on liquid gas.  I haven't yet looked into the new bio-fuels as we only have less than 5% allowed without any marking, and therefore the pumps will be marked E-10 or E-15 or whatever, and I have not seen any of those in the UK yet.  But there could be upto 5% alcohol already mixed in our normal fuel.

I'm not so sure the bio-fuel will be so much a problem with the Murena, but you may know more than me.  My understanding is that it is not good with metal fuel tanks (but we have plastic) and any metal fuel pipes (again the Murena only uses rubber hoses and if necessary we can change them).  As the bio-fuel has a different S.G. (specific Gravity) the float level in the carburettors may need to be reset, but that should not be too much a problem.  The one thing I heard was the bio-fuel has a higher octane rating, so that might be beneficial to our engines.

Quote
The governement however desided to put the high tax on oltimers younger then 40 years and on GPL it is skyhigh.

Putting high tax on liquid gas fuel is stupid as it is CLEANER than other fuels!  That really should be challenged.  I'm sorry they have upset your plans having already bought the parts.  Are these high taxes allowed in the EC?  I thought all countries in the EC had to follow the same EC rules.  We are always being told here that we have to follow them, when we wish to do something different.

Quote
No matter what people tell, use the 98 for the 2.2 is my opinion to.
There are some documents flying around the web telling different but my user manual say 98 (1982)

The WRONG document.

The book tells only super wich was RON98 in the 80s in our country.

Correct.  The 2.2 must only use high octane fuel.  We are maybe lucky here but Esso have linked up with our big supermarket Tesco and the Esso Super which we can get, I am told has been measured at 99.7 octane.  It certainly runs well on it.

Quote
The 1.6 however has no problems with the 95 octane but that one will even run on diesel  Grin

Herman

Ha ha, I like that one!  I know the 1.6 can sound like a tractor, so maybe it can run like one too! :-)

Roy
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 09:28:10 am by roy4matra » Logged

suffolkpete
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 451



« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2015, 04:21:39 pm »

oi! don't knock the 1.6. They're more reliable than the 2.2 and not much slower.  (puts up asbestos umbrella and awaits the tirade from Roy)  Seriously, my 1.6 will run on 95 RON without complaint, but I get more miles per gallon on Super, so it pays me to use that.  My Rover 2200 is supposed to use 97 RON, I tried using 95 RON with an octane booster but it ran terribly, but it's great on Tesco Momentum.  The situation in the UK is that there are no immediate plans to phase out 5% ethanol fuel.  The FBHVC is campaigning to retain Super with a maximum 5% ethanol as a protection grade in the UK.  I think the dangers of ethanol  are overstated.  It only corrodes steel if it is left in the system for a long time so is not likely to be a problem if you use the car regularly.  Prior to 1989 there were no restrictions on the amount of ethanol that could be added.  In the UK we used to have Cleveland Discol petrol which was 25% ethanol, and National Benzole Mixture which contained benzene and benzyl alcohol and I don't recollect any issues with those.
Logged
Oetker
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1048



« Reply #64 on: February 20, 2015, 05:54:39 am »

GPL banned for oldies stupid?
Yes it is stupid but for the reason we need to go back a few decades.
Politicians in that time decided that we had to save our heritage carpark for next generations to come.
They decided that all vehicles older then 25 years became free of roadtax.
That cleared the road for collecting cars even if you have a budget.
Lots of people collect and a biz was born trading and repairing.

Because cars were getting better a lot of cars were used for daily use.
A nasty side effect of this was that old diesels were imported and mostly old Mercedes from Germany and they don't realy help the enviroment.
Also a lot of old cars got a GPL transplant.
Normaly tax is sky-high for this cars but older the 25 years it was free.
Therefore the politicians desided a few years ago that the taxfree age of oldtimers had to go to 30 years.
They implanted this law slowly in a period of 5 years.
That worked pretty good and import of old diesels slowed down.

Our politicians are not reliable.
The recession kicked in and they had to find extra taxes.
The Oldtimer again was target.
New law for oldtimers, the cars need to be 40 years.
Cars on diesel and GPL want have any advantage anymore and we all had to pay full tax again.
For diesel and GPL that is sky-high.
Our taxes are measured by weight of the car and kind of fuel.
For example.....
a heavy Landrover Diesel woudl have a roadtax of 3000 Euro a year.
Also heavy american muscle cars on GPL would go up to 4500 Euro a year.
You can understand that a lot of people were not happy espacialy when you have more cars.

The laws were implanted on very short notice.
Carclubs like ANWB and BOVAG couldn't do much.
Only thing they achieved was that cars 25-40 years on normal fuel pay around 100 Euro extra tax and have to get of the road from 1 december till 1 march.
If you have more cars from 25 - 40 years old you still need to pay a serious amount and the cars have to get of the street for 3 months.
Parking on the street is not allowed in that case.

Of course we are pissed and we planned a spontanious action to show our grieves.
We mobilised on the internet some people to hit the road to our political capitol Den Haag and block the whole city,
Something like this.


On 5 parkingplaces in Holland we gathered for what had to be a final protest.



The police came looking what was going on and warned Den Haag to get ready for a happening.


To let eryone know of the action we blocked the highway (yes it's me in the front) and we drove ultra slow.




News spread fast so the police was prepared for us and they blocked the city so we could not drive true.


We were directed to a field (maliveld) and ther we parked the cars.


From there we organised a meeting with one of the politicians to give a petition.








From there we got back and the whole action ended as one of the best oldtimer festivals ever with a very nice collection of cars.
Here some examples.


































« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 12:02:46 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Oetker
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1048



« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2015, 06:01:48 am »

part 2
Any Matra's there?
Yep me ,and I was suprised to see a female mechanic that restored this Rancho by herself.
Normaly I am the only one.




Is it ending here?
Is there no future for old cars in Holland?

The protest goes on and we all sponsor a organisation to get the governement to court.
26 februari the 5 trial start and there is enough money to put this to European court.
Its in Dutch http://www.vrijstellingoldtimer.nl
In the mean time a whole biz is down the drain and lot of people that can't pay there hobby are selling there cars abroad or break it.
Specialised firms still have a lot of cars in stock and value is a lot lower.
There goes our heritage.

Yes, I'm pissed and I'm not the only one.
1 march my hobbycars will come out the shed to do what they were made for.
Can't wait

Herman
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 12:07:42 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Jon Weywadt
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 954



« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2015, 03:27:41 pm »

-----
1 march my hobbycars will come out the shed to do what they were made for.
Can't wait

Herman
Way to go, Herman. Thumbs up from here and wishing you luck.
Logged

Matranaut par excellence Cool
Oetker
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1048



« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2015, 06:47:08 am »

This is what the politicians stopped with the new law, the import of gaz-guzzlers but it it hit people with youngtimers hard that only do a few miles.
It's a bit hilarious but he feels our new laws to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=878av2p0xzc
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 07:11:47 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to: