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Author Topic: Powered By Honda  (Read 11205 times)
darrenheli
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« on: March 07, 2010, 07:07:32 pm »

Engine use honda k20a from a civic type R 2.0  using the 6 speed gearbox, i found some throttle bodys that bolt straight to the cylinder head not using an inlet manifold gaining some engine bay room for an cold air in =let via an air box. i used hydra ems mangment becouse it will run the vtec valve. the engine ang gearbox is 69kg lighter the the 2.2 engine and gearbox.
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krede
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 07:42:39 pm »

Very impressive!  Smiley
Too bad such a swap would be illegal in Denmark.  
May I enquire into how you made the gear linkage? and what parts you used? Smiley
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 07:51:27 pm by krede » Logged
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 07:52:36 pm »

Impressive indeed!!
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 08:35:11 pm »

Very impressive!  Smiley
Too bad such a swap would be illegal in Denmark.  
May I enquire into how you made the gear linkage? and what parts you used? Smiley

Hi Krede. With all else that we do to these cars, why would this engine be illegal in Denmark? Huh

I too am interested in where you got the cables you use for the gear linkage. From the pictures it looks like there is just one cable for each movement (back/forth and side-to-side) That will require rather stiff cables and sleves, so what brand are they?
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Matranaut par excellence Cool
krede
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 08:37:58 pm »

Quote
Hi Krede. With all else that we do to these cars, why would this engine be illegal in Denmark

Too much power.
The practical upper powerlimit of a Murena 2.2 is 170hp. Any more than that, and you would have to get a Tüv or similar approval... which is just too expensive to be an option.
And yes.. that goes for the Alfa v6 conversion too (180+hp if I am not mistaken). 
By the way. Have anybody heard if njesper has gotten his approved yet?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 08:43:06 pm by krede » Logged
michaltalbot
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 10:08:02 pm »

The most important is how did You made the connection of axle-shafts?

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Oetker
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 11:28:45 am »

Looks like a very professional job, not for the fainted hearts.

quote Krede
--------------
Too much power.
The practical upper powerlimit of a Murena 2.2 is 170hp
=====================================
Maybe it is possible to limit it in the software temporary.
I like it, looks good.
Very reliable engine.
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
krede
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 11:31:03 am »

Quote
Maybe it is possible to limit it in the software temporary
No... you would never be allowed to "detune" an engine in order to get it approved.
If it produces 200hp in the honda, that is what they will use as the power figure.
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 02:57:09 pm »

Quote
Hi Krede. With all else that we do to these cars, why would this engine be illegal in Denmark

Too much power.
The practical upper powerlimit of a Murena 2.2 is 170hp. Any more than that, and you would have to get a Tüv or similar approval... which is just too expensive to be an option.
And yes.. that goes for the Alfa v6 conversion too (180+hp if I am not mistaken). 
By the way. Have anybody heard if njesper has gotten his approved yet?

I hope that Anders won't run into trouble with the Holbay cam (that I also want to install) If I am not mistaken it could give it 184 HP (or perhaps I am confusing it with a Politecnic engine)

But I also want to change mine to injection instead of the carb. Will that cause raised eyebrows?  Huh
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krede
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 03:09:55 pm »

Though I doubt that they will spot such modifications as a hot camshaft, In theory yes.. 170 is still the absolute max power.
Throttle bodies are illegal too unless you can provide documentation from the manufacturer, at least in theory. But this last bit is more minded on newer cars... at least I hope so...because I run TB's and efi on my Murena Smiley
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michaltalbot
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 07:20:11 pm »

It's terrible what all is illegal in your country  Huh Why is legal 170PS and 180 is illegal? How thay will find how much PS do you have?
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krede
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 07:55:25 pm »

Well my friend. The answer to your question is two fold .

1) Safety. By law you are allowed to increase power by no more than 20%. It does not matter whether you achieve this by tuning the existing engine, og by swapping it for a more powerful one. Any form of forced induction that incorporates a waste gate is considered to exceed 20% no matter what.!
There are exceptions. If ,say, your car is made in a model with IDENTICAL brakes suspension etc. as yours, but with a more powerful engine. You are allowed to fit this engine to your car. But if its more than a 20% increase in power, you have to pay a "new" tax on the vehicle.... which makes it much more sensible to sell your car and buy the more powerful instead.

Though I hate to say it... I kinda agree with this rule..... well in spirit at least. I've seen lots of cars with standard brakes/suspension/transmission a hugely engine under the bonnet, and an idiot at the steering wheel. 

Also It should be noted that from 1984 onwards it becomes nearly impossible to get anything approved due to emission requirements.The problem being that YOU need to provide the documentation that your engine meets the requirements= too expensive.

2) Money, Money, Money. Since cars are so expensive in Denmark, some would save some money buy the 1.6, and swap for a bigger engine as mentioned above.

Hope that answers your question...  Smiley 
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michaltalbot
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 10:13:54 pm »

Krede: thanks for explanation, but...
1) idiot behind the steering wheel could kill mother with children also in car with 25kW. There are cars with good suspension/brakes as BMW, Mercedes, Murena (really no difference if 170 or 190PS), etc. and there are old cars with very bad properties as Skoda 120, all American cars (and often with 300+ PS), VW Beetle, etc. which are dangerous with their engine and after 20% increase, they are undriveable.
2) what if I will make documentation with small jets in carburetors and after aproovement I will change them + camshaft + exhaust, who and how will control my real power each ride?
3) look at all those accidents, it's so easy to speak about speed - we can simply controll it and say what is under/above the limit, but easy in this case = wrong. Much bigger problem is that there is a lot of people who aren't able to drive (unable to see everything at one moment, unable to make the right reaction for every situation, atc.) or aren't paying full attention to driving, I'm not speaking about alcohol...  Angry

The system of lowering the speed in GB is the worst way. They say 50km/h in town is too much, they will squeeze it to 30km/h and we will have less of accidents. After some time they will decide that 20km/h is more safe... and at least the safest is to stop driving at all Roll Eyes I can see it also here. First it was 60km/h, now 50km/h and when they mounted lot of automatic radar controls, 80% of drivers is driving cca 40km/h (for sure) and is it safer? No! Because when You look into these cars, drivers are eating, drinking, reading newspapers, doing make-up, etc. - because driving doesn't require their attention.

Much better way is to educate good drivers, but I understand that it is too complicated, much easier is to measure the speed  Roll Eyes and set the limit for power increase - what after all I wrote - seems that is not a solution for safety.
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GP
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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2010, 02:40:15 am »

Engine use honda k20a from a civic type R 2.0  using the 6 speed gearbox, i found some throttle bodys that bolt straight to the cylinder head not using an inlet manifold gaining some engine bay room for an cold air in =let via an air box. i used hydra ems mangment becouse it will run the vtec valve. the engine ang gearbox is 69kg lighter the the 2.2 engine and gearbox.
Hi Darren,

Excellent choice of lightweight modern engine transplant, with the perfect layout for the Murena if I might say. My neighbour with her nice red Honda Civic Type R (which she foolishly let me inspect closely recently) may well be in for a shock one morning!  Grin

Err..... I think you should come clean now and tell the world what the actual power output actually is!!!!!

Can't wait to see it in the flesh and be taken for a blast.

Cheers,

Graham

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krede
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2010, 06:56:48 am »

Quote
idiot behind the steering wheel could kill mother with children also in car with 25kW
I totally agree...if 12 years in the army has taught me anything it is that you cannot underestimate how stupid young men can be.!!
But not having a 200kw car is at least a beginning.

Quote
what if I will make documentation with small jets in carburetors and after aproovement I will change them + camshaft + exhaust, who and how will control my real power each ride?
They have no way of controlling that. But neither can they stop you if you install a different engine... or drive too fast when no one is watching. But both things are still illegal.

Speed kills.... (well its the sudden absence of speed that does it really). If everybody kept to the speed limit there would be fewer accidents... I have no doubt.

Quote
Much better way is to educate good drivers

Totally agree
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