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Author Topic: Engine problems, 3.0 V6 - 1999  (Read 17582 times)
Trolkar
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Posts: 82



« on: March 22, 2010, 08:31:42 am »

Hi! - I have a small engine problem. When the engine is slightly warmer than cold, after it has run into 2-5 minutes it starts to shake during weak acceleration. Given a little more gas "shakes" the entire car, but given full throttle it "shakes a few times" and then goes fine for a while.

After 30 minuttes or longer, the engine runs well.
I have replaced the temperature sensor but still same problem.

Any ideas?
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
renaultbiler
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2010, 08:20:56 pm »

Are the spark plugs old ? Coil pack might be the problem aswell....

How did your autobox story end ??
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
marko ucha
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2010, 02:58:19 am »

I have the same problem with my car....but all the time in last 2 days....what should I do...? Spark plags OK, coils OK,TP sensor replaced..... TDC cleaned, now it is time for MAP, an TEMPERATURE sensors.......misfire is there all the time! What is the problem? Cry
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Rebault Grand Espace 2.0 16v automatic
Trolkar
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Posts: 82



« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2010, 07:21:32 am »

Are the spark plugs old ? Coil pack might be the problem aswell....

How did your autobox story end ??

Hi Renaultbiler!

The spark plugs are?!?! - Well, i don't really now for sure! - But the engine has ran 240.000 km, and therefore i am replacing them next monday.
Any good ideas for how to replace the spark plugs in a easy way?

Coil pack?!? - What is that? Is it "distrubutator" for the spark plugs? - How to i check those?

Haven't i really not responded about my gearbox??! - I'll do it later on! - The story ended almost happy :-)
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
Trolkar
Full Member
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Posts: 82



« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2010, 07:24:49 am »

I have the same problem with my car....but all the time in last 2 days....what should I do...? Spark plags OK, coils OK,TP sensor replaced..... TDC cleaned, now it is time for MAP, an TEMPERATURE sensors.......misfire is there all the time! What is the problem? Cry

I feel with you! - These misfires are a pain in the a...

There are NO errors on my computer,  and therefore the simple ? is = Where to look? - What to do?

Hopefully those wonderfull helpers in this forum can give os a useful hint.
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
Trolkar
Full Member
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Posts: 82



« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2010, 08:30:13 am »

While we are talking spark plugs...

My Mitsubishi runs best with NGK. If I use Bosch, the engine revs up quickly, but sounds more "rough" when idle.

Are there any spark plugs that fits this engine better than other?
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
renaultbiler
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2010, 10:25:23 am »

The coil pack is the black tripple coil mounted above the front cylinder row spark plugs, its this one that produses high voltage for all 6 spark plugs! Make sure its not moisture below it, in the spark plug pipes.

The genuine spark plugs on this engine is high interval NGK platinum - very expencive and have the same interval as the cambelt, 120.000km.

I run on BERU UXF79P (ULTRA-X platin) spark plugs as they are much cheaper BUT DESPITE THAT has proven more reliable in this car than NGK by several owners, and i am very happy with them aswell.

The exchange is not easy, but i can be done without lowering the engine as supposed to - remember it is designed to be done on the cambelt service anyhow.

You find step by step pictures on how to replace them (with english notes) on my forum: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2736

Please tell us about your gearbox repair history Smiley
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 10:29:23 am by renaultbiler » Logged

1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
jack daniels
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Posts: 132



« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2010, 10:53:20 am »

regarding spark plugs, there have been some stories in the newspaper recently about some fantastic new plugs that will give a much better spark, more power and improved fuel economy.
      The downside however was that the plugs ceramic insulation was under-dimentioned causing the spark to short circuit to the motor block instead of in the combustion chamber.
      In a few cases the unignited fuel mix exploded in the catalytic converter instead causing varying degrees of damage to the vehicles.

so, a conclusion can be to stick to a well known and well proven plug. A motorcycle I had years ago seemed to consume champion and NGK but ran well on Bosch.
   Also, not all plugs come with the correct gap so if you choose one that is precisely set  by the factory then that can also give a longer life than if you have to manipulate the plug gap yourself.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 10:56:58 am by jack daniels » Logged

Espace, Grand (magnifique, formidable, grandiose, considérable, noble, ample) III  
2002   JE02   F4R  DP0   2.0L 16v auto
Trolkar
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Posts: 82



« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2010, 11:59:53 am »

I run on BERU UXF79P (ULTRA-X platin) spark plugs as they are much cheaper BUT DESPITE THAT has proven more reliable in this car than NGK by several owners, and i am very happy with them aswell.

Where can i get those spark plugs in DK? - Or even S/N?

I love Google, but in this case - Totally failure!
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
jack daniels
Sr. Member
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Posts: 132



« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2010, 08:14:03 pm »


www.mc-butikken.dk/search/UXF79P/         98kr.
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Espace, Grand (magnifique, formidable, grandiose, considérable, noble, ample) III  
2002   JE02   F4R  DP0   2.0L 16v auto
Trolkar
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Posts: 82



« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2010, 10:08:11 am »

Great! - Thx!
a sixpack is on its way :-)
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
Trolkar
Full Member
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Posts: 82



« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2010, 09:22:14 pm »

Hi all!

Home from a long day with my great big brother.

Today, the car was given a 240.000 km's service. - Incl. new spark plugs. (BERU), oil, oil filter, petrol filter... Everything, incl. cleaning of air intake and a new petrol hose (!) There was as small leak just under the throttle cabel! (Haven’t given the gasoline smell a though, since my rear exhausts is in need of a replacement, but haven’t been able to find a replacement yet. (Awaiting Anders’s exhausts change  Cheesy )).

- The car did drove home very well, but the big test is tomorrow. - I really hope the misfire is gone!

Bye the way, the hole operation was done in 7 hours. An none of us is familiar with working on a Renault .
(The leaking petrol hose took us about 30 min’s to locate)

/Troels
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
Trolkar
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Posts: 82



« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2010, 04:53:13 pm »

Well, the 10 km trip home from the garage yesterday was a small success. But mainly because I drove at very different speed while testing the brakes, acceleration and so on.

But today, on a trip for 2 x 60 the happy felling went to a very sad feeling.
The engine is still having problems – More than ever 

Before, the “misfire” only came when the engine was slightly warmer than “cold”, and stops when engine temperature reach normal.

Now, there are problems all the time. – The engine often hesitate and sounds like it misfire / stalls when accelerating a bit more than “very slow”. (The accelerations is slower than average acceleration – Reference = The other cars on the road).

When driving at 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90 km/t with the cruise control on, there is no problem, and accelerating “Flat out” also works fine. (0-66 mph / 0-100 km/t about 10 seconds)  – Running the engine in “n” and slowly accelerate, there are NO signs of stalling / misfire. – But if I “quickly” gives full throttle in idle, the engine almost “die” / “blurbs” / “drowns” before it starts to accelerate. – And it is not accelerating quickly. Sounds very slow… (I can only reference to my Mitsubishi – Revs up in under 1 second). It takes 2-4 seconds for the engine to rev up and about 5 seconds before reaching “a high rev”

It consumes 13,5 – 14,5 liters of gasoline for every 100 km. (While driving around 80-90 km/t)

The old spark plugs was “black”, but nothing I normally would worry about. – But, when changing I noticed, that under the coil pack, 2 of the spark plug pipes earlier has been moist, and the 3 has some “oil”.

The CLIP says NO error (except for the Oxygen sensor)

Any advice / ideas?


/Troels
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2010, 07:09:53 am »

It sounds like you have a problem somewhere. Can you post photos of the tips of the old plugs? I would not accept any kind of fouling on a fuel injected car - only a light tan colour. Were they all the same? The fuel consumption is definetely too high.

When you had the CLIP on the engine, did you check the readouts from all the sensors? You mention you have replaced the water tempereture sensor, but don't mention other sensors.

Does it change the pattern if you use high octane fuel, e.g. 98 or Shell V-power?

Does the pattern change with weather?

My first suspect would be the ignition coil pack. If it has any kind of rust on the cores of the coils, then replace it immediately. Moisture becomes trapped inside the cores and effectilvely creates a new winding which "short circuits" the coil. This one was defective on mine (I broke off the plastic corner to show how bad it was):



Second suspect would be cam timing. If the timing belt is replaced without taking the engine out, the cams cannot be locked and it's very easy to get them misaligned. I know of at least one case where this happened. It can be very difficult to detect, but the engine will not sound correctly and of course not run correctly either.

Third suspect would be ECU wiring. Put the CLIP on when the engine misfires to check all sensor readings.

Fourth suspect would be a leaking injector, but that would have shown with one of the plugs being much darker than the others.

Oh yes, I've also heard of one whose catalytic converter had collapsed inside. They can do so with age and if the engine runs too rich, like yous apparantly does. It can end up blocking the exhaust completely!

So there's a few things to check! Smiley
Also, feel free to pop by this weekend with me to compare with our car - I'm back from France again now!

/Anders

« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 11:22:45 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Trolkar
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Posts: 82



« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2010, 12:14:31 pm »

Hi Anders!

Welcome home! – Hope the Espace took you and your family for a great ride!

I’m sorry, but my car is no longer “drivable”. After the service and a small trip the engine is hesitating so much, that driving is almost impossibly. – On less accelerating at full speed all the time.

The spark plugs is maybe already at the scrap yard, but the color was the same on all 6. (But I’ll try to find the spark plugs at the garage)

Using cheap (JET-95) fuel or 99 (Shell v-power) makes no difference, and the weather have no influence.

The engine has run about 8.000 km since timing belt replacement, and when in idle it runs perfect.

I think replacement of the coil pack is the next step to get further. – If I’m right, it is still the original coil packs, so why not change to a new set. Where do I get these cheap? – Don’t think I’m interested in buying used parts, since the replacement is so hard (takes long time) to do.

/Troels
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'99 Renault Grand Espace 3.0 V6-24v
'97 Mitsubishi Galant Wagon 2.5 V6-24v
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